A little Latin help?

Question

Hi,

Normally I can do okay with simple Latin records and using Google translate but this is a more in-depth marriage record. At the bottom of the page of Catholic marriage records from Nettesheim in 1673, there are two marriages. One between Joannes Carris & Anna Krewers? and then following immediately after, the marriage of Andreas Carris & Lebwina Hambloch. I know the dates, the priest's name, both from Anstel, etc. I am trying to figure out the relationships named in the records.

The first I believe says banns were foregone, married at Johann's mother Maria Carris' house in Anstel. Does it say the bride was in childbirth or had just had a child or is it just me with bad Google translate? (There's no birth or death record for a child so trying to figure this out). The other part is the last sentence, I would like to know what that says. . . Joes Karris ? fili Andrea . . . .(as Andreas Carris is my ancestor, I'm trying to figure out were they brothers, was Andreas his son?)

Second marriage is Andreas Carris of Anstel & Lebwina Hambloch of Nettesheim. It's the last 2 lines here that I need help with as I see Joe Karris, the name Wilhelm & then Lebwina's father (?) Tilmann Hambloch as witness?

Marriage Record

Answer 1

I will start with the second entry in question:

Transcription: [1673] "24. 8bris habita super trinis denuntiationibus matrimonialibus ab ordinatio dispensatione matrimonis junxi Ego Otto Rein.[er] Veyder Pastor in Nettesheim honestos Andream Karriß ex Anxtel et Lebwinam Hambloch ex Netteßheim Parochiaros meos in facie Ecclesiae praefert ex parte Sponsi Jo[hann]e Karriß eiusque filio filio Wilhelmo, ex parte Sponsae patre Tilmano Hambloch et aliis quamplurimis."

Translation: "With permission granted and after three wedding announcements, I, the pastor Otto Reiner {Weider}? von Nettesheim, on October 24th 1673, have united in marriage the honorable Andreas Karris of Anstel and Lebwina Hambloch of Nettesheim, both members of my parish, in front of the congregation and (the witnesses) on part of the groom: Johannes Karris and his son Wilhelm; and on part of the bride: her father Tilmann Hambloch; and many more."

Notes: a) The writer seem to have mistakenly doubled the word "filio". I see no other meaningful explanation. b) Please always remember that in Latin, words often appear in abbreviated form and names appear in inflected form, to meet grammatical requirements. "Joe" is NOT a German name it is the abbreviated form of "Jo[hann]e" which in it self is the Ablative of "Johannes" meaning "in front of Johannes" as a witness (in this case). Same goes for Joes (=Johannes) and Jois (=Johannis / = belonging to Johannes).

If I find time, I will also look into the other entry, but it is for the marriage between Johannes Berrisch and Anna Kremers. So not sure if you are still interested?

Comments

Thank you! Yeah I knew that Joe is shorthand for Johann, that the names are Latin versions. I've been going through and correcting on Family Search too because it drives me nuts that people are leaving names such as Heinrich as Henrici. (I understand that some have not been looked through and were just thrown up as transcribed when they were indexed but others have been edited and they leave the Latin version of the name).

And now that I look again, you're right, the one above is Berrisch not Carris. It was indexed as Carris and I never noticed it was a B not a C.

Thank you again! :)

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Perfekt Carrie, I see. You are one of the good ones then ;) I grew a bit frustrated lately since, as you mentioned, people keep adding funny Latin inflected forms as names. So I preach it whereever I can, in hope that at some point it will stick in mind.  :o)

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Danny is masterful when answering these type of questions.
What a treasure for the Germany Project!