German translation help needed - 1816 Marriage Record in Wilhelmsfeld

Question

I have found possible candidates for the parents of my emigrating and long-time brick wall ancestor, Leonhard Schmidt-1855, and created profiles for them -- Andreas and Katharina.

I would love and appreciate assistance in deciphering/translating records associated with them, starting with their marriage:

"Deutschland, ausgewählte evangelische Kirchenbücher 1500-1971," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSWX-B9ZW-Y?cc=3015626 : 19 October 2019), > image 1 of 1; Records extracted and images digitized by Ancestry.com. German Lutheran Collection, various parishes, Germany. Bottom right; see next image, top left, for remainder of record.

Then I would appreciate similar help on Andreas' death record:

Deutschland, ausgewählte evangelische Kirchenbücher 1500-1971," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSWX-B9ZW-9?cc=3015626 : 19 October 2019), > image 1 of 1; Records extracted and images digitized by Ancestry.com. German Lutheran Collection, various parishes, Germany.

I believe both records mention his parents and the marriage identifies her parents, but I do not trust that the indexer was accurate. Would love fresh eyes on this.

Lastly (for now), if anyone is familiar with the records from this area, do you know if they had family registers? Any other hints or clues to aid my research?

This ancestor has been a brick wall for over 25 years. Thank you in advance for your help.

Answer 1

Hey Jillaine,

First the marriage record. I will deal with the other one later, if I find more time.

Transcription:

Actum HeilichKreutzsteinach, den lezten September ob.[igen] Jahrs; Gestern mittags zwölf Uhr wurden nach gesetzlichem Ausruf von mir hier getraut, Andreas Schmitt, Schutzbürger von Wilhelmsfeld, des Theobald Schmitt, Bürgers zu Wilhelmsfeld, und deßen Ehefrau Catharina, geb.[orener] Bernd, ehel.[eiblich] led.[iger] Sohn, Taglöhner, alt zwanzig acht Jahre; und Catharina, des weil.[and] Joseph Hertel, Bürgers und Taglöhners von da, und deßen Ehefrau Anna Margaretha, geb.[orene] Jacobi, ehel.[eiblich] led.[ige] Tochter, alt zwanzig vier Jahre; Zeugen waren Christian Gärtner, Bürger und Besenhändler, und Johannes Prang, Bürger und Leinenweber, von da.

Eisenmenger, Evangelisch-Reformirter Pfarrer.

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Translation:

Heiligkreuzsteinach on the last day in September of the same year (=1816);

Yesterday at 12 noon got married by me after legal proclamation: Andreas Schmitt, inhabitant in Wilhelmsfeld, a bachelor an day labourer, legitimate son of Theobald Schmitt, citizen of Wilhelmsfeld, and his wife Catharina, née Bernd, 28 years old; and Catharina, a maiden, legitimate daughter of the late Joseph Hertel, citizen and day labourer there, and his wife Anna Margaretha, née Jacobi, 24 years old; witnesses have been Christian Gärtner, citizen and broom trader, and Johannes Prang, citizen and linnen weaver, both from there.

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Note: the term "Schutzbürger" means that Andreas at that time was only inhabitant without the full citizen rights.

The first two lines of the second page do not belong to the entry they only state that the entry is part of the churchbook of the evangelical reformed church of Wilhemsfeld. The entry is written and singed by the priest, Mr. Eisenmenger.

Given the fact that he wrote this on September 30th and speaks about "yesterday", one would assume that the marriage took place on September 29th.

Comments

Danny, THANK YOU very much.

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No problem. I hope it helps. Here comes the second record:

Transcription:

Im Jahr eintausend achthundert und zwey und dreyßig, den vierten May nachmittags 3 Uhr, starb zu Wilhemsfeld 44 Jahr 11 Monat 4 Tage alt und wurde heute, den sechsten ejusd.[em] dahier um 4 Uhr nachmittags beerdigt: Andreas Schmitt, Beisaß und Taglöhner daselbst, Wittwer der verst.[orbenen] Katharina, geb.[orene] Hertel, ehel.[eiblicher] Sohn des verst.[orbenen] Theobald Schmitt, Bürgers in Wilhelmsfeld, und deßen gleichf.[alls] verst.[orbenen] Ehefrau, Katharina, geb.[orenen] Bernd. Zeugen der Beerdigung: 1. Peter Seile; 2. Peter Hör, beide Bürger und Weber daselbst.

Heiligkreuzsteinach den 6. May 1832. M. Werner, Pfarrverweser.

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Translation:

In the year 1832, on May 4^th, at 3 p.m. died in Wilhelmsfeld, at age 44 years, 11 months and 4 days, and was buried here today, on the 6^th of the same month at 4 p.m.: Andreas Schmitt, inhabitant and day labourer there, widower of his late wife Katharina, née Hertel, legitimate son of the late Theobald Schmitt, citizen in Wilhelmsfeld, and his also deceased wife Katharina, née Bernd. Witnesses of the burial have been: 1. Peter Seile; 2. Peter Hör, both citizens and weaver there.

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notes: the term "Beisaß" is another variant of "Schutzbürger" meaning a inhabitant without the full rights of citizenship.

The record was issued on May 6th (day of burial) by the Priest of Heiligkreuzsteinach. But Andreas died already on May 4th in Wilhelmsfeld.

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Thanks again, Danny.

What I'm piecing together from this and other records is that Andreas was born in Heiligkreuzsteinach but married and lived in Wilhelmsfeld. I looked them up on a map; they're not far from each other.

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No. Don't get confused by the continous mentioning of Heiligkreuzsteinach. Andreas was born in Wilhelmsfeld as well. It is just so that Wilhelmsfeld at that time didn't have its own church. It Was only build in 1868. Before that the priest of Heiligkreuzsteinach also was responsible for Wilhelmsfeld. It has historical reasons. Wilhelmsfeld is a very young village founded only 1710 from Heiligkreuzsteinach as a "colony", both places, and the hole "Oberamt" Heidelberg belonging to the Electorate of Palatinate at that time. After the dissolution of the Holy Roman Empire and the splitting of the Electorate Palatinate in 1803, the Oberamt Heidelberg was given to the Markgraviate Baden, which itself was promoted in 1806 to the Grand Duchy of Baden. Following this, there was some reorganizing of the region and in 1810/11 Wilhelmsfeld was detached from Heiligkreuzsteinach beeing an independend parish from now on, but was managed for some time still from the priests of Heiligkreuzsteinach.

I know German history is complicated ;)

Nevertheless you probably will find the birth of Andreas in the churchbooks of Heiligkreuzsteinach, since befor 1811 there was only one book for both places.

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This is exactly the type of historical context I was seeking; thank you, Danny!

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Danny, you've been so helpful; wondering if you might help me again. Same record group.

I found Andreas Schmitt's death as you translated above; in it, he is called a widower.  So I went backwards in the death records from 1832, looking for his wife Eva Katharina geb. Hertel. She was clearly alive when she gave birth to what appears to be her last son, Nicolaus in Apr 1819 (separate record found, also indexed in familysearch). But I could not easily find her death record.  Until this one:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSWX-B9C9-P?i=295&cc=3015626

Left-hand side, item #6. But it's not like the others, at least unless my eyes are just not awake enough. I see "Eva Katharina" but no surname, no relationships. I think the death took place in Sept 1819, which would be five months after the birth of her son IF this is Eva Katharina geb. Hertel, wife of Andreas Schmitt.

Can you help me decipher this one? I really appreciate it, as I believe this couple are my long-lost ancestors.

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To make it short. Its not his wife. Its about a 17 day old girl. There also is a reference to the birth record No. 14 of this year. That's why no other details are given.

I did some thinking about the problem you have. It will be hard to find the connection or prove if this are indeed the parents of your ancestor. Schmidt is one of the most common names in Germany. The Leonard you found surely fits all of the few details, but still there could be much more Leonard Schmidts be born on that day.

The only hope I see so far, is that you can find other connections between the Schmidts family in Wilhelmsfeld and the Schmidts that exist in the vicinity of your Leonard. At least some names that fit and are people that vanish in Germany about the same time they appear in America. To do that one would have to research the complete family tree of Schmidt in Wilhelmsfeld starting at least with Leonards grandfather Theobald.

Maybe I can help a bit but this would take some time. I started to dig in the books and found some details about Theobald. I will put it in his profile. I also changed the places to fit the style rules. Hope you don't mind.

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Danny, THANK YOU (again!!!) and I don't mind at all; I welcome the collaboration.

I did start mapping out the Schmidts and Hertels that I found. I have a spreadsheet... (Spreadsheets are my friends...)

First, I've been going backwards from Andreas' death. I recorded all Schmidts that I could find back to 1819.

Now I need to go forward to see which Schmidts got married. If Leonhard born 1818 married, then I can rule him out. 

Question for you: many of my German ancestors were born in towns that had "familienbuchs" -- those wonderful family registries which name the parents, each of their parents, and then the children that the couple had, cross referencing to the children's family registries when THEY got married. And if they emigrated, I'd see the "ausgewandert" in their marriage or death column. 

I'd be in heaven if Wilhelmsfeld had these. 

The other resource I've found helpful are Ortsippenbuchs. But based on what I've seen so far, Wilhelmsfeld looks pretty small for an ortsippenbuch...

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As far as I know there are no such books for Wilhelmsfeld.

Your spreadsheet might help to get an owerview. Lets try it then. If I start with the grandfather and you cover the children of Andreas, we will meet in the middle :)

But lets switch to direct conversation. I will send you a PM when I finished the research of Theobalds family.

Answer 2

I have a living relative in Germany who might be able to translate it. If she can't she knows people who can. Please email me at momakid@yahoo.com if you want me to contact her.