Have you seen the CC7s for Notables?

Question

Hi WikiTreers,

Last night we released some updates. Only our developer community would care about most of the changes, but there is one that will be of interest to anyone who works on profiles of historical personalities and other notables.

We are now calculating CC7 connection counts for notables. The count appears at the top of their profile, along with some other tools and links to encourage collaboration on their connections. For example: Pope John Paul II.

See Notable Connections for more information.

If you notice any problems, related to this or just any mysterious new problem, please let us know here.

Thanks,

Chris and the WikiTree Team

Comments

Cool!--Gene

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I noticed this yesterday. Just what I needed, another rabbit hole. Which notable has the highest cc7?

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K., Ales Trtnik just whipped up this list of the notables with the highest CC7s. Very interesting!

Notables by CC7

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Thanks Ales. This added feature has given me a connection to Brigham Young. One of his 50 plus wives was a 3rd cousin. I would have had no reason to look other than notable cc7 count. Genealogy started with curiosity. Then it went to interest. Now it is entertainment back to curiosity.

Thanks, Chris, for the heads up.

Answer 1

Nice addition to Notables! I clicked on the link that takes you to the missing connections, signed in and had a look. Very handy guide!

Answer 2

Very nice addition!! Looking forward to seeing how this can make our tree grow!

Answer 3

Love this feature. What criteria does the system use to determine who is a notable and who is not?

Comments

The Notable Connections link that Chris gives above says "A notable is defined as the profile of a person who meets Wikipedia's criteria for notability and is identified with the Notables Project Box or Notables Profile Sticker."

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Right, Samantha. David, it's about the templates. If a profile has the Notables Project Box or Notables Sticker, it will get a count.

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Found one that did not get a CC7 on it, but her CC7 is only "3". So I'm wondering if there's a tiny one like this, will it be excluded?

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Franklin-16073

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I noticed the same thing, which is why I asked the question. Actress Estelle Harris has a father and a spouse, but no other relatives. She has a Notables Sticker but no Notables Connection Count. I've seen several others like this - all with either zero or very few family connections. 

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Scott and David, that's exactly right. We made a mistake in our logic and were only displaying the Notable Connection section if the count was five or more. We have changed that so it's now one or more. It still won't be displayed if the count is zero.

I added an explanation here: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Notable_Connections#_note-0

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Thanks for the clarification, Chris. I don't think any of us would have had great heartburn if we drew the line somewhere, but I think the fix and clarification will make it easier for everyone to understand without additional explanations. Great work by the team to put this together!

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Not show a count on those with zero connection could actually be a good thing as it provides an added motivation to get to least one relative connected, which increases the motivation to add a few more while your at it.

Answer 4

I am part of the Connectors Project, so when I look at the Pope example, I do not see a puzzle piece ... therefore it appears to me that he is connected to the one global wikitree, and that would mean that he is connected to millions of other wikitree profiles.

Therefore on his profile, where it says "61 connections", I think you should identify what that means. If it is only referring to his CC7 count, then it should be so labelled, so that it is clear. Otherwise those who are not Connectors might think that he is only linked to 61 other profiles.

Notable Connection
61 connections | Help grow his connections by adding missing links

Comments

N., members may be familiar with the counts on their own profiles. For example, yours says "2,190 connections". This is your CC7. If you click the black question mark there is an explanation.

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Yes I know what it is. But my point is that visitors and new members will NOT know what it is. They will just assume that there are ONLY 67 connections instead of millions.

Therefore it should be identified as CC7, so that they can look up what that term means. It is always best to avoid any possibility of confusion by being clear.

Just like most of us know that Mary is a female, but instead of assuming that, we still make sure that all the profiles actually state it, so there is no confusion.

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It's true, you don't know what you don't know and there is a learning curve when you are a new WikiTree user. One must familiarize themselves with new concepts and tools. Thanks for pointing that out, N. Gauthier.

Answer 5

Brilliant change. I love that features are constantly being added, it keeps everything fresh and there is always a different spot to dig in.

Answer 6

Can you hear the US Black Heritage Project collectively cheering? We asked for the ability to put the cc7s on the notable profiles a few months ago so we didn't have to individually look them up to update them every month. This is a game changer for us and our goal to connect and expand trees for every one of our notables. A HUGE thank you!

Comments

The Notables Project seconds your cheers! Not only will this save us a great deal of time and labor, but it also frees up that time and labor so we can work on other improvements our members have been asking for.

Answer 7

Should the CC7 count show up instantly when the sticker is added? I've just put it on this profile, and nothing has happened (apart from the fact that it now has a sticker)

Comments

It seems that it gets updated every day. A man I added the Notables Sticker to last night has his cc7 this morning.

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Here is what you have for the sticker - "{{Notables Sticker|}}"

Try removing the "|" or add an appropriate parameter to the sticker and then see if it works.

I believe that there may be an issue with parameters in general. But in this case, there is the syntax that a parameter will follow, but no parameter appears. (i.e. Null parameter)

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Whoa - over 6400 connections - very impressive....

Answer 8

Nice! Do we have a way to know which notable profile holds the record?

Comments

Ooh - I love that question. Just like we have a top ## for members, wouldn't it be cool to see a top ## for Notables? I'll add my support for a page like this, if it's possible. :)

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Scott and Lea, great idea. Ales did it for us: Notables by CC7.

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Now we do.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Automated:Notables_By_CC7

The winner has CC7 over 180000.

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What an impressive number! Thank you for always bringing interesting new features, Aleš

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And what about our all-time 100 Circles champion Samuel Lothrop? CC7 over 250,000, beats them all by far

 ... hum, you're not a Notable, sorry Samuel.

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Thanks for compiling this list, Aleš.  Unfortunately, it appears that duplicates are created in the list every time the system updates.  Can you please check on this and see if we can eliminate the duplicates?

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Fixed.

Answer 9

oh is that what that is?  Only saw it on one profile in passing, is there a better place to put it please?  Looks like clutter where it is.

Answer 10

It is nice where it works. Looks like there is a glitch on some profiles however.

Some of the stickers with parameters are not working.  e.g. {{Notables Sticker|Canada, Notables}}

For example -

Michael J. Fox - https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Fox-4897 - who has a notable box, his CC7 count is included.

Guy Lombardo who has a Notable sticker - https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Lombardo-117 - his profile does not reflect a CC7 count.

Update, it looks like the glitch may be more than just stickers with parameters. In the Canada Project's May 2023 Birthday Challenge, the ten profiles featured should have there CC7 numbers reflected, but only one profile has the CC7 number included. Among the ten is Percy Rodriguez who has a Notables box, but his CC7 is not included. 

Can this be reviewed?

Comments

Hi Russell,

This should now be fixed. Let us know if not.

Thanks!

Chris

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Thanks.  There was a bit of a lag on some of the updates, but they now seem to be working great.

A very good enhancement.

Russell

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i connected Michael J Fox profile.

Answer 11

That could be very handy tried it on one of my relatives (My Grandad's Cousin) and found a few lines that could do with work.

Answer 12

Great addition, one of my 11xg/granduncles has over 14,000 connections.

Comments

by chance, I noticed this on a cousin's profile whose count is over 17,000. that will surely frost some people since he has not added one profile himself.

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Wow...It's interesting K Smith

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Wm "Devil Anse"  Hatfield-26,886

Answer 13

Not sure if this is just me, but these connections don't show on my android phone, but do on my laptop.

Comments

Hi Paula,

You are correct. We had a bug in the display on mobile devices. This should now be fixed. Let us know if not.

Thanks!

Chris

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I am not seeing these Notable CC7s on any browser on which I am not logged in to WikiTree. Is that deliberate? The Help page says

Millions of people find these profiles ...

so I had been assuming that visitors could see this data.

I'm also not seeing it on Safari on my iPhone even when I am logged in, so perhaps the fix hasn't worked.

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I am still having problems seeing these from my Android phone (running Google Chrome).

I only see the connection numbers on notable profiles if the notable person's profile is on my personal watchlist.

There has been one improvement. Until a few minutes ago, when the numbers did appear on my phone, the numbers were not hyperlinked (I only saw a number). Now I see hyperlinks, but only for profiles on my watchlist.

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I am not seeing these Notable CC7s on any browser on which I am not logged in to WikiTree. Is that deliberate?

Yes, it's only available to people that are logged in. 

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Hi Chris, still not showing on my mobile phone - Android - chrome - in tried clearing the cache and I am logged in and checked my browser is the latest.

Sorry

Paula

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Hi Paula, can you try again on your phone?

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Jamie, it's working on my iPhone now (when I'm logged in). Thanks!

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And I'm now seeing connections on notable profiles that aren't on my watchlist.

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Hi Jamie,

This is now working on Android to, good job all involved :)

Answer 14

Amazing ... No-ta-bles.

Dear great-grandmother Catherine Penanguer who bore 13 children, including 6 stillborn, 2 killed at war, and who kept struggling for your life up to the age of 90. I've been working for 4 years now around your circles, nobody will know that your CC7 is today over 4,000 and counting. But indeed, who cares?

Sorry about that, Catherine, you were not, are not, and will never be notable. But the aoutronez who ordered the hell of steel and fire in which your sons and so many of their cousins disappeared were notable. So is life.

I can hear that computing CC7 for ALL profiles would be too costly (I've been told so previously). But would it be possible to have it based on other criteria that this so-called "notability". Just, for example : work has been ongoing on  this profile to complete her circles. In the 100 Circles page, we have introduced the notion of "Focus Profile" for this ... any profile of the past might deserve to be in focus, millions of them of whom "notability" is just to have tried to live this life and pass it to the future as best as they could. Millions of Catherine Penanguer.

I thought, and always believe, that WikiTree is a place to remember those, whose name would be otherwise forever forgotten. But maybe I've been misled. It always rains where it's wet.

Comments

Joke, exactly what I have in mind. "On-demand CC7"

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One way to get a CC7 count (plus list of profiles) is with a WikiTree Plus query like

https://plus.wikitree.com/default.htm?report=srch1&Query=CC7%3DPenanguer-1&MaxProfiles=10000

Replace Penanguer-1 with the WikiTree ID you want. Don't forget to click "Get Profiles". The result is based on data that may be up to a week out-of-date.

This method was offered by Aleš in a G2G comment at this link.

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People can work on who and what they want to work on and it helps everyone get connected. I mean, who cares about Bulgaria but some of us Bulgarians (and Bulgarian Americans)? I'm not disappointed by that.

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You can run the CC7 for any profile without going to WikiTree+ if you like. Use the Pulldown under My WikiTree and go to Connections. It will first pull up your own connections, but there is a box there where you can put a different WikiTree ID and it will pull up automatically the first few Degrees. You have to pull up the remaining ones by clicking on the buttons near the bottom and depending on how many connections that person has, it can take a little while for it to pull them all up and give a total count. If you wanted to do it by a web address, you could use:

https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Special%3AMyConnections&w=Penanguer-1#next

where you replace Penanguer-1 with another WikiTree ID.

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And after trying the WT+ version... that's MUCH faster. I don't know if it excludes the private profiles, as WT+ does not include any private profiles, so I'd have to do a comparison to be sure...

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So WT+ said that Penanguer-1 has a CC7 of 3981, which I'm now pretty sure excludes private privacy profiles. The page in WikiTree, while it takes a bit longer to load and is a bit quirky (if you go off the page, or don't keep it active, it tends to go to sleep on you), shows 4067. But they're in the same ballpark.

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And one more - I don't think WT+ will show you the CC7 on the profile if it's below a certain level of privacy, so using the WikiTree mechanism is probably your only option there. Not sure where the line is drawn, but I had issues with my own profile at yellow privacy and no issues at open privacy, so it's somewhere between.

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Scott, Jim, thanks for your time. But I think you missed my point. I know I can access the CC7 for any profile, many ways to do that, and even with the 100 Circles query (which dates back to end of 2020, when CC7 was barely a concept) we have access to the distribution of all circles beyond C7. And there is the My Connections app, and the WBE extension, and the very cool Ian Beacall's app : https://apps.wikitree.com/apps/beacall6/cc7_table.php

BUT : my point is display/not display on profiles, based on notability, the call to help to improve the CC7 on notables profiles only, the it's-always-raining-where-it's-wet impression it conveys.

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I thought, and always believe, that WikiTree is a place to remember those, whose name would be otherwise forever forgotten. But maybe I've been misled. It always rains where it's wet.

Showing the CC7 count on Notables (to logged-in users) doesn't change that you can add a profile for anyone, notable or not. And most of the profiles that will be added to fill in circles will be non-notables. 

But would it be possible to have it based on other criteria that this so-called "notability".

What criteria would you use? It's explained on the help page why Notables were chosen. 

However would it be possible to calculate (and store) CC7 for a profile on demand?

Probably not. There is too much potential for abuse, and we have to be very careful about resource use on the main server. 

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Thanks Jamie.

"What criteria would you use?"

For example : large family, profile representative of a particular area/period/social class, in focus of a project, years of work already achieved around the profile, CC7 already in the thousands ... what else?

But the debate is closed as far as I'm concerned.

Answer 15

Independently of my rant about notability, I'm afraid the mention "Help grow his connections by adding missing links" might be counter-productive for very famous profiles, attracting members with no real knowledge of the profile environment to feel welcome to work beyond their competence zone.

An example I just stumbled upon : https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/1581970/help-with-connections-for-napoleone-bonaparte.

The France team had hard time in the past fixing many profiles of notables where people had added whatever junk relations they could have grabbed on the Web. The more famous the profile, the more there are unfounded stories around him.

Let's hope this will not trigger another salvo of dubious illegitimate children, romantic hidden marriages and legendary ascendants.

Comments

The profiles in danger of having incorrect family members attached should be marked as a PPP to stop additional relations from being added.

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I have a good number of them set this way, as well as some with green-lock privacy if that option is available. Unfortunately, there is always the risk of those who would like to "prove" their legitimacy through websites such as ours, and we do have to remain diligent not only for those who would do so intentionally, but there are also those who are misled through another site's dubious research or presumptions that turn out to be incorrect. I try to sympathize with those as much as I can and use it as a learning opportunity to be cautious - for without reasonably decent sourcing or at the very least solid and reliable word-of-mouth reports, these things will happen.

Answer 16

Is there a way to query the CC7 number in Wikitree+ by category?  A couple of categories I care for are all notables.  Most are not but I can live with that.

Answer 17

 @ Chris - thank you for the new concept, and Ales for his report - I discovered this when I went to do a revision of another Profile which has a Link back to him - = 

688

Charles Grey 1764 - 1845

CC7 = 28040

23

92

308

1024

2930

7643

16020

 =  https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Western_Australia%2C_1829_Counties_-_Profile_Tree = Charles 2nd Earl Grey - Western Australia, 1829 Counties = - 

 Perhaps, too, the report could sit along side =

Notable Connection  and Report        
28,052 connections | Help grow his connections   = with the run date on the report please. ( oh the date is at the footer -)  One I am waiting for which showed today (23/5) is = 

Andrew Barton Paterson CBE

Andrew Barton Paterson CBE (1864 - 1941) ID/Link/URL/Cite

Notable Connection 
1,721 connections | Help grow his connections = - but I see the report only runs to the top 1000 ? -  - cheers - ja