WikiTree's New and Improved Global Project is finally here!

Question

THE WIKITREE GLOBAL PROJECT

Yes, after months of development, the WikiTree Global Project is now open for the perusal of all members. There is so much to tell here, but I'm going try to keep this post short. What I'd really like everyone to do is head on over to the site itself and begin exploring for yourselves. Then, join Betsy Ko and me on Monday, January 8th, at 6pm EST for the first episode of our new monthly YouTube series, The WikiTree Global Showcase.    

This amazing new show, a spin off from last year's Global Wrap-ups, will follow a similar format of profiling one lesser-known nation each month. We will explore the country's history and demographics as they relate to genealogical research; we'll take a look at a handful of that country's notables through their WikiTree profiles; and we'll share available resources for doing research in that country. Additionally, each month we will be using our selected country to help members improve their genealogical and WikiTree skills by covering such topics as source citations, dealing with foreign languages, finding and posting acceptable images, and locating resources for countries not covered by Ancestry, Family Search, etc. 

That said, our first episode will be a bit different, as it will serve as an introduction to the Global Project as a whole. Rather than focus on a single country, we will take you on a live tour of the site, showing you everything you need to know about navigating the site, joining a country project, or even starting a country project of your own. 

Now, before you head over to the site there are a few things to be aware of:

1) The new Global Project does not replace the old Global Project. At the top of the homepage you will see a tab for Country Projects and a tab for Worldwide Projects. The Worldwide Projects are those projects with a worldwide theme which don't quite fit under any other project's designated theme. Right now, this includes First Responders and Remember the Children, but will likely include others in the future.  

2) The Country Projects Page is now home to the project pages for 197 individual countries. Links to WikiTree's 23 Top Level Country Projects are included here. Please note, however, that these projects will continue to operate independently of the Global Project. If you are a member of one of those projects, nothing should change for you.  

3) One of the first things you will notice is that not all of the country's links are currently working. (Those that are underlined work; those that aren't, don't.) Lesson #1 here is never try to launch a major project during the Holidays. Many of the unlinked pages are up and ready to go, but we are having to tweak their URLs which is taking a little longer than expected. Those countries whose names are bolded, have projects ready and waiting to be opened. Expect access very soon.

4) If there is a country project you are interested in working with, and it is not bolded. let me know and I will move it up to the top of the list.

So with that, lets head over to the Global Project Page. Look around, explore a few countries, and consider what countries you might be interested in working with. Expect lots of bugs in the initial weeks, but also feel free to leave any feedback here. Then tune in next Monday to explore the site further with Betsy and I and join in the live chance to discuss your thought with us directly.   

THE WIKITREE GLOBAL PROJECT

Comments

Excellent initiative David. I would like to see the Nordic Model work in Latin America.

Answer 1

Since the United Kingdom Project is no longer active, might it not be a better idea to include links to the England Project, Scotland Project and Wales Project in the main list? (Ireland is already there).

Comments

We've considered that. But because most rosters of nations list them as together as the United Kingdom, it was easier to set the project up following the pattern used by the sources we were utilizing. Adding or subtracting countries threw the numbers off and got a bit confusing.

Currently, if you click on the United Kingdom page, you will get a special page with links to England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, and the British Oversees Dependencies. This also gives us a place to explain that the UK Project no longer exists, since not everybody realizes this, and its abandoned ghost is still floating around WikiTree. You will also note that direct links to the three countries are listed on the Top Level Projects Page.

Figuring out where to place the British Oversees Dependencies Project is also a challenge since this is an active project featuring several important locals, but they are not independent nations. (Remember, once we start making exceptions, it risks becoming a slippery slope - i.e. what about Australian dependencies? And Danish dependencies?)

Now that the project is up, we are open to making adjustments. I'm curious what others think. Should we continue to link England, Scotland, and Wales though their parent country, the United Kingdom? Or should we add the three countries to our main roster, and erase The United Kingdom from the list? Before answering, it would be great if members would take a quick jaunt over to the site to see how we have things set up currently. Then, I'd love to her your thoughts.

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Separate them out.

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Great work on this project.

For someone who has been living in Guernsey for 14 years and spent the first few years being told "Guernsey is not part of the UK". Therefore, I would not look under the UK to see if there is a project for Guernsey.  

The main question here is if someone is looking for a project what would be the best way for people to find these projects?

It most likely be easier to separate them even if it is a "Guernsey" that leads to the British Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territory project. 

Steph

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@Melanie. I agree, separate the UK projects.

@Stephanie. 'Isle of Man' is in the same league - British Crown Dependency and most definitely not a part of the UK. It should be easy to create road-maps to find the projects. Whatever the political systems, they are still in the region of Europe.

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Ireland is separate from the United Kingdom as they are two separate countries per most rosters of nations. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is the sovereign state so that should be listed in the country alphabetical list.

Wikitree Projects on the other hand have England, Scotland and Wales as top tier Projects. And the United Kingdom project is no longer existing except for some loose items around Wikitree.

The possible solution to this is to list the Top Tier Countries first before the Alphabetical listings. It will result in most Top Tier Country Projects having two listings however. 

To those that say have them listed as Countries in the Alphabetical listings then it will become a case of "Why is this place listed but that place isn't?" set of arguments. Would we have people from Texas saying their project should be listed or Someone from the Cook Islands asking why they are not listed. Or the Guernsey example. They are a Crown dependency so not usually considered a Country but they are effectively independent. Should they be listed separately. Where is the line drawn?

https://www.worldometers.info/geography/alphabetical-list-of-countries/ seems to be similar to what David used

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Perhaps we might need a Dependencies, Free associations, Countries within a Country, States, Multi-Countries,  separate listings for those other projects. So those projects that are set up that are not in the usually lists of nations are also easily findable.

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My hint was to firstly identify by region - then identify and link to the current administration.

I am quite content with my position as a team leader in the Ulster Province of the Ireland Project - that is where my ancestors emigrated from in the 19th Century. I don't get any value from a category of "Northern Ireland".

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Let me elaborate on this matter a little bit further...

In putting this project together, it became apparent early on that the United Kingdom would be far from the only complicated nation we'd have to deal with. What do we do with Quebec? Bermuda? Puerto Rico? All have Wikipedia projects, but none is recognized as an independent nation.

Our solution was to select an established list of countries and stick with it. We chose the current United Nations roster, which includes 193 member nations, plus four non-member observer nations. The United Kingdom is a United Nations member. Independently, England, Scotland and Wales are not. Thus, the United Kingdom made our list, the others did not. Neither did Quebec, Bermuda or Puerto Rico. That could change, but that's how we made our initial decision.

It must also be emphasized that the Global Project has no influence over the England, Scotland or Wales projects. As they are all Top Level projects, how they operate is purely up to them. The Global Project simply provide links to their pages. That is currently being done through our United Kingdom page as well as through our Top Level Projects list. For clarity, this discussion is purely about where we should place the links to these projects on our page, and has zero baring as to the status of these projects on WikiTree.

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@Darren - The 'line is drawn' where the umbrella project is active or inactive.  Therefore, the United States project is active, so should not be split into states (such as Texas).  However, the United Kingdom project no longer exists.

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It makes no sense to some (many?) of us that a project that went defunct in 2019 (which is when my UK project badge disappeared) is being used as the link for currently active Projects.

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The list on the Global Project page is for Countries not just Projects. The United Kingdom is what is recognized as a Country. That is why It is on the list. 

The problem is that there are some Projects that were part of another Country project but now are separate Projects even though they are not legally recognized as separate countries in most sources. 

Examples of lists that recognize England, Scotland, Wales as separate are things like the Commonwealth Games, FIFA, Cricket World Cup. There is probably some other lists or event that I can't think of at the moment. Then there are the things that show that the United Kingdom is the sovereign state like Ambassadors, Olympics, The Armed Forces (British Army, Royal Navy, Royal Air Force), Passports, United Nations, Acts of Union (1701, 1800). 

What sources David has used show the United Kingdom as the Country not England, Scotland or Wales. I can not find any sources that say the United Kingdom is not a country. 

If however we just do it by Projects then we wouldn't have any African countries listed as there is a Africa project and the Nordic project would be listed instead of Sweden, Norway, etc. 

We have 36 Geographical projects listed on https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Projects#Geographical_Projects but not all 36 are Countries. Some are regions of a country and some are multi-country. They are not listed on the Country list either.

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The countries are England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland.

The United Kingdom as an entity did not exist until 1801 so they should be treated as individual countries even if some things are the same in more than one of the countries.

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@ Darren, the United Kingdom is a State (a political entity) rather than a country (a geographic entity). The countries are England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

The United Kingdom has not had a functioning project since 2019. Looking at the list, it seems that Scotland, England and Wales have no Projects unless you know to look under the heading for a defunct project.

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As Stephanie pointed out, Guernsey (and Jersey and Isle of Man) are not part of the UK. The question to answer is: if you are looking for Guernsey, how do you find it?
Until this question was raised I would not have found the description "British Islands" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Islands

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As an American who has "graduated" both level 3 of the England Project's Orphan Trail and the Scotland Project's Tartan Trail, I can tell you that the genealogical research methods were TOTALLY different before the United Kingdom was formed. My membership in the EP did not help me with pre-Britain profiles. The individual projects should certainly be listed.

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I agree with keeping England, Scotland and Wales separate and not listed under the United Kingdom. Especially, since the United Kingdom Project has not been around since 2019. I didn't join the United Kingdom Project but I have joined the England Project, the Scotland Project and the Wales Project. Like Ellen said the Orphan Trail and the Tartan Trail are completely different.

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What is a Country but a political unit which the world is divided into, covering a particular area of land.

. The alphabetical list is of Sovereign Independent Countries of which Wales, England, Scotland, Northern Ireland are in no means Sovereign as they are not independent of the United Kingdom . A country can not try to declare independence from another country and it not be accepted by the voters as in the 2014 Scottish independence referendum . 

This list is of Countries that are not dependent of another country. David also has a separate page linked at the top of the Countries page which links to the top level country projects. So if people do not realise that England is a Top Level project then I would be very worried. 

I did also suggest that the Top Level Projects get listed on the top of the page before the Alphabetical listings as well. Pity that people have gotten hung up on the fact that the United Kingdom is recognized as the country and not the constitute countries which the Projects are based on.

Sources for United Kingdom as the Country

1. https://www.britannica.com/topic/list-of-countries-1993160
2. https://www.worldometers.info/geography/alphabetical-list-of-countries/
3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_area
4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-1
5. https://history.state.gov/countries/all
6. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom

Wikitree is about sources. I have provided sources. I am not just making things up without proof. I can not find any proof that the United Kingdom is not the Sovereign Country of which England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are parts of. I can find acts that have let Scotland, Wales, Norther Ireland parliaments with limited responsibilities but that does not prove independence. 

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As for the argument about genealogical research methods being different, Do people then support having every Australian State listed separately as the methods of searching in South Australia is quite different than Queensland? Or do we also do Canada as Québec is quite different than British Columbia?

 That doesn't even become as complicated as the United States with 50 plus different legal systems. There are probably other areas where there is a difference in one countries legal systems or genealogical skills between constitute parts.

Some of those countries had independent states long after England, Wales and Scotland were independent states. Why can we not include them if the criteria is a state was independent at some time as some people seem to be arguing. We can't have one unsourced rule for some areas and not for others. 

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Wikitree is a genealogical website and deals with countries on a historical basis, not on what currently constitutes a country in the context of the United Nations.

the help pages https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Category_Names#General_Rules specify “A fundamental style rule on WikiTree is to "use their conventions instead of ours," i.e. we should attempt to use the name that the person themselves would have known and used. “

Not only does the United Kingdom project not exist, the vast majority of Wikitree profiles for people born in England are for people who never lived in the United Kingdom. 

The first thing I did when I went to your home page was look for England in the country list, and found it wasn’t there. The title for the tab says “Country Projects” . The England project is a Country Project and in my opinion shoukd be listed separately.

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I hope that the Global Project will reconsider, and stop using the United Kingdom Project, which no longer exists and has outdated pages that nobody in particular manages, as a gateway to the England, Scotland and Wales which are all countries in their own right.  The United Kingdom is and politcal administrive area that has existed since 1801 and is likely to fall apart in the non too distant future. To say that these three counties fall under the United Kingdom is, in my oppinion, a bit like saying the France, Gemany, Belgium etc. sound fall under the European Union.

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The United Kingdom Project was killed off several years ago, rightly, and does not exist, so it would appear wrong to give a link to a non-existent Project.

I see it as essential to list the projects for England, Scotland and Wales separately, and also the Project for the British Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories which bave never been part of the UK.

There are big political sensitivities in this, which people who live outside the UK may - understandably - not fully appreciate.

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Hi guys, this was just an accidental oversight that will be remedied shortly.

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Thanks, Eowyn. That is great to know.

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Thank you Eowyn.

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Thanks Eowyn. Perhaps an easy solution would be to have, under the "UK" listing something like: See: England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland projects with their appropriate links. That way if someone looks there, they can be redirected.

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Bobbie, that is what was originally set up. However people disagreed with the fact that David was following sources which name the  United Kingdom as the Country.

There are lots of locations where what the local people call their location is not what other people consider the overall location. I have had people consider Cornwall the only location valid, Bavaria, Texas, the list could go on and on. However if you go by sources the three examples I gave would be be considered part of the United Kingdom, Germany, the United States.

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I must be missing something very basic here. Is this not simply a list, an index, a finding aid? If one wants to find, say, Wales, one might look under W or under U. We use their conventions, which dictate that there are separate projects. There is no usefulness in pointing to a defunct project.

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Darren, I have yet to find any source that states within that source "United Kingdom".  The repository may use UK in its name, but the sources themselves seldom even mention the word "England".

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If I was looking for Cornwall where would I find it on a Country list? The answer is I wouldn't find it on the list that is on the The Wikitree Global Project as it isn't considered a Country by most standards even though some people consider Cornwall to be their Country and they don't consider themselves English or British and they don't consider it part of England or the United Kingdom at all. And this is direct from someone I worked with from St Minever. 

There are projects set up that encompass parts of countries and ones that encompass multiple countries. They do not belong in a list of countries. The countries listed on the page are the countries that pretty much every source agrees are countries and unfortunately none of them call England or Wales or Scotland or Northern Ireland separate countries. Northern Ireland does not have a separate project that is top level but the other three do. There are also top level projects that are regions of countries or that encompass multiple countries. So do we include them even though they don't represent countries that are on sourceable lists? 

I ask that anyone can prove with sources that the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is not a country to show your sources. I have shown my sources in previous comments and David has shown different sources showing the United Kingdom is the Country. No one has shown sources disproving this. Just statements without facts have been provided. So just like on Profiles show the sources please. 

I have found plenty of sources that omit England, Scotland or United Kingdom but that does not prove that Gloucestershire, Yorkshire or West Lothian are considered countries. It is the same with records in the United States as well where they will omit the United States and sometimes even the state as well. 

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It's a debate that still rages, Darren. Scotland is a member nation of the United Kingdom. Perhaps you'd like to view Scotland's government's current viewpoint:

Renewing democracy through independence.
 

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I think we are getting mixed up with current-day geographic listings and WikiTree Projects.  The Global Project has as their mission statement: "The primary purpose of the Global Project is to provide a link to a WikiTree project or resource page for each nation of the world" (my emphasis added).

England, Scotland, and Wales are WikiTree Projects. The United Kingdom is not a WikiTree Project.  Therefore, it should not be listed.

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Darren, Northern Ireland did not start until 1921.  I can show you LOTS of suggestions for profiles that are using that as a country before 1921 and those locations need to be corrected, just like many profiles that have UK or United Kingdom on them before 1801.  Plenty of suggestions and plenty of profiles that you are welcome to help correct.  Some of us have worked very hard to clear the suggestions and plenty of profiles that do not 'yet' have suggestions that have these inaccuracies in them.  There are plenty of profiles that have sources on them that show UK before 1801, does that make them correct?  Is it correct that UK is not on everything after 1801? There are plenty that have no country or UK, but that doesn't make them correct either.  

And now you want Northern Ireland to be considered a separate country?  Why not check out Wikipedia for Northern Ireland which says it was a government created in 1921 for part of the country?  It also says that that 'part' of the island is referenced in different terms - country, province or region?

 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland

No one is suggesting that every project on Wikitree should be an entry in the Global Project. It was stated that the original Top Tier country projects would not change, but when it is difficult to find them, they are being changed if people look to this 'project' page to find the other Country projects. 

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And it's fixed.  

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Thank you!!

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Thanks Eowyn!

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Thanks Eowyn, you’re a star!

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As a Moderator, I suggest ending this discussion about the component countries of the UK at this point. These exchanges have veered to some extent off topic, and are likely to do so more if they continue, and the list of Projects set out by the Global Project has been amended (thank you again, Eowyn).

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Final Comment

The primary purpose of the Global Project is to educate. And boy have I been educated over the past few days! When dealing with the political realities of 200 countries, opinions are going to vary over how things are handled. That's okay, we can work them out here as I believe we've just done. 

I can't possibly be an expert on all 200 world nations. If I get something wrong, I rely on you to let me know. Be aware, however, that seemingly simple solutions can sometimes have unforeseen ramifications. Thus, recommended changes may need to be thought through a bit before they are implemented. But do know that the leadership team and I do hear you.

Thank you to those who provided input on both sides of this matter, and I do hope you find the Project useful moving forward.

Answer 2

Congratulations on getting the project up and running, David! It looks exciting.

FYI the main image on the page comes up blank for me. This is because it is called Social Media Images-5, and my content blocker doesn't like it. I can live with that myself, but if you're concerned it may affect other people, you might want to put the image or a variant of it on a differently named free-space page.

Comments

I've never heard of that before. I've gone ahead and renamed the file and have saved it as a .jpg if that makes a difference. Let me know if the problem continues.

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Thanks David. I turned my content blocker back on for the page and can see the picture, so I think your fix worked.

Answer 3

Well done David! Thanks to you and all those who've helped you to put this together! I'm joining when I can find the join up post :-)

Comments

We'll post a Join Up message after the YouTube session on January 8.

Answer 4

Great work David and to all those involved! I can’t wait to see where this takes us!

My first impression is that all of the country names are in English. Shouldn’t they be in their language of origin with possibly the English name in brackets, or vise versa?

Comments

The Problem will become which Language do we use when the country has multiple languages. And the Global Project is not doing anything with existing Top Tier Projects and they are named in English even though their language of origin is not English for some of them.

So if the countries not in top tier were changed to the official languages it could result in French speaking countries being created in French but the France Project staying recorded as English as the Global Project is only providing a listing to it and nothing else.

Having the names listed in the relevant countries for the official languages would be a good thing to have and I will add the local name to the countries I have set up for this project myself

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I know that there is no easy answer to this, but this needs to be considered to make WikiTree more worldwide.

I understand what you are saying about France but it doesn’t really work that well as the name is English/French bilingual as is Canada.

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I will make a brief comment on the Global Project's stance on this issue, but would like to see an extended conversation. if desired, moved to its own thread.

1) The Global Project 100% supports the use of native languages on WikiTree profiles and elsewhere.

2) The Global Project also recognizes that most WikiTree users speak English. Most do not speak the language of their distant ancestors. Thus, to display names, places and other information solely in a native language will likely hinder many more people from discovering their ancestral heritage than it will help.   

3) We could add the native language alongside the English language, but as Darren pointed out, some countries have numerous native languages. India, for example, has 23 official languages. Which one would we choose? Or should we list all 23?

4)  The issue of multiple languages on WikiTree is an old one to which, as Liza states, there is no easy answer. The new Global Project has been a massive undertaking and we are far from done yet. Figuring out the proper language translations for all 197 countries is something we are simply not prepared to take on. So for now, we will continue to maintain our site in English.

5) All that said, individual country projects will have the ability to choose however they wish to display their project and managed profiles as they see best fit for their own purposes.  

6) This topic is the subject of an age-old debate on WikiTree which reaches far beyond the limits and authority of the Global Project. If you'd like to continue this conversation, I ask that we move it to its own thread which will allow for greater input from the broader community.

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Thanks for your reply David

Answer 5

If you Google "Countries of the World", you will almost aways find the United Kingdom on any list of sovereign nations. This is not so for England, Scotland, or Wales. Try visiting Wikipedia, Britanica, the United Nations, the CIA Factbook, the World Bank, etc. Not one lists England, Scotland or Wales.

But that's not really the issue here. It seems our members representing England, Scotland, and Wales do not appreciate being relegated to second tier status, and that's understandable. They are Top Level Projects and I have no problem recognizing them as such.  

However, if I were to add them to the main roster of countries, and eliminate the UK, what should I do with the British Dependencies and Overseas Territories Project? If not the United Kingdom, what county should oversee them?

Comments

Perhaps you could list them under B for 

British Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories since we have a British Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories project?

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I apologise for the large font. It was unintentional and happens sometimes when I’m posting on G2G - something to do with my iPad setup that I don’t quite understand . I use large font sizes as default since I am partially sighted.

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And then what about all the other dependencies that various countries look after? By a rough count I can find 40 of them.

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Maddy is right in her suggestion. The British Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories are not part of the UK. They have their own Project and it should be separately listed.

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The United Kingdom Project, which has not existed for some years, has been removed from the list of Country Projects, and the England, Scotland and Wales Projects, which do exist, have been added. I believe this confirms the need to list the British Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories Project.

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It was just explained to us why England, Scotland and Wales should not be lumped to together as a single nation (U.K.), and the offense some took at my having done so. So now educate me further please. Why do we lump the British Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories together as if they are a single entity? Do Jersey, Bermuda, and the Falklands really have that much in common politically, historically, or genealogically? Following the same line of thought outlined above, wouldn't it be more prudent to give them the same respect we are giving England, Scotland, and Wales by giving each of these countries their own project rather than lump them together as if they were one?

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The Crown Dependencies - the Isle of Man and the Bailiwicks of Guernsey and Jersey - have the same monarch as the UK but are separate from the UK. The constitutional arrangement dates back to medieval times. Each is a separate entity. They are self-governing with their own laws, as I know from having negotiated with them for the UK government when I was a UK civil servant. If you want a fuller description, Wikipedia has a more detailed explanation at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Dependencies.

The British Overseas Territories are also self-governing, and are not, and have never been, part of the UK, though the UK is responsible for defence and foreign relations. The UK monarch is their head of state, but again that does not make them part of the UK, any more than the UK monarch also being monarch of Australia makes Australia part of the UK.

The list of Projects is a list of Projects. Currently we have a single Project for the Crown Dependencies and the British Overseas Territories. Therefore this Project needs to be listed. There is an argument for suggesting that Guernsey, Jersey and the Isle of Man should be listed separately with a cross reference to the Crown Dependencies and British Overseas Territories Project.

We should not be discussing here whether there should be separate Projects for Guernsey, Jersey and the Isle of Man. That is a separate discussion, and the normal procedures for proposing new Projects would need to be followed.

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https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:British_Crown_Dependencies_and_Overseas_Territories  is a space page not a full project. So it is in no way level with the Australia Project or the Canada Project or any other Country project. So why should this be listed in a list of countries? That is what the list on the Global Project page was representing. For a list of Projects you can look at https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Projects.

And why should the constituent parts not be actually listed under it's separate parts instead of being lumped together. Just because there is a space page lumping them together means nothing if an existing Country comprised of constituent countries is not valid even though there are plenty of sources available proving that fact. 

It can't be one rule for one area and a different rule for another area. 

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Darren, please see what is said elsewhere in this set of conversations about Cyprus and Greece, which currently just have a space page and are not at this moment formal Projects.

I see the list of country Projects as a finding aid, intended to be helpful to WikiTree members. We have a Project - admittedly informal at this moment - which covers Guernsey, Jersey, the Isle of Man and the 14 British Overseas Territories (some of the Territories have no permanent inhabitants). The question for the Global Project is, does it make sense, and is it helpful to WikiTree members, for the list to omit all mention of this Project?

If I was a WikiTree member living or interested in say, Guernsey, I would expect this list to help me find out whether there was a Project covering Guernsey.

I will not comment further in this set of exchanges.

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I haven’t so far commented on any of this because I can see the emotion running through how many are articulating themselves. I just wanted to say I agree with Michael.

All Wikitree & Country projects are user generated and part of the purpose of the global Project it to enable people to find their geographic area of interest more easily, and encourage collaboration.

The history of how the England, Scotland and Wales Projects Emerged from the now defunct U.K. project is not complicated, it was down to a ‘need’ from users.

As it currently stands, Elizabeth and the members of the British Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories operate as one project, and I’m sure they would be delighted to gain more members, so have maximum visibility.

David, you are absolutely correct... the Falkland Islands, Bermuda & Jersey probably have little in common and in the long run, over time as the project grows and more people show interest I’m sure some of these Countries will wish to become stand alone projects. However, at present we are where we are.

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Ok, let's not let this thread get too far off track.

Michael, you gave an excellent explanation. It's a complicated history and relationship these countries have, and I am appreciative of your concise explanation. It truly helps me going forward.  

Darren, your point is also well taken. This is a roster of countries, not regions of the world or WikiTree projects. You will notice that Nordic Nations, Quebec, Puerto Rico, Appalachia, etc. - all strong WikiTree Projects - are not included on the list. (At least at this time).

Michael makes a second good point, though. If I have ancestry in a land that is not technically a "country" is there not still a place for me in the Global Project? My goal for this project is to have a place for everyone, not just most people.

Launching this project has had me quite busy over the past few days. Yesterday alone I received 62 messages about it! I'm going to place any further changes on hold until after Jan 8th. Please tune in then to watch Betsy and I on our premier YouTube show and hear a little more about our ideas for this project and how we envision it all working. For now, let me continue to focus on the 199 countries already on the list. Then, once the seas have calmed, we can talk about how best to ensure that these additional world regions/projects get included.

Please let me reiterate that I am 100% appreciative of all the feedback and am certain that in short time we can come up with solutions that will satisfy everybody.

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Hi David,

I appreciate how much work and thought you are putting into this, however I don’t really think we are too far off track. You Specifically asked that if England, Scotland and Wales were listed separately what should you do with the Crown Dependancies Team Page?

As this has now been done Maddy, Michael and I believe you should include that space page under B for British Crown Dependencies and overseas territories.

We honestly aren’t trying to complicate the issue for you, just genuinely trying to respond to your question.

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How about considering postage? If you have your own postage stamp that makes you a country in my opinion. Lots of places with the same monarch. Perhaps I should say "have had" as I'm not sure about stamps nowadays.

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Thanks, C MacKinnon. There are stamps issued by the British Antarctic Territory which has no permanent residents. I doubt anyone would call it a country. There will be other examples - leaving aside stamps used for purely local purposes (and collectors) by, for instance, some islands off mainland Britain, and other examples of stamps issued by localities and territories which would not be regarded as countries.

Answer 6

This is a great initiative David and crew.  Thank you for all the hard work you've put into it.  I think once the UK issue is sorted out, you'll find you have support from all top tier Projects.

As you said, there will be bugs to work out... the UK Project (not a Project) issue and collaboration with affected Project leadership being a top priority, I hope.

Answer 7

In the list of Country Projects, why are some in Bold but are not links?  I don't see an explanation.

Comments

And why do some countries have an asterisk, some with links, but not all with links?  An explanation would be helpful

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Thanks Linda. You ask a great question.

The countries that are bold are the countries that currently have Project Pages created. At the last minute, however, the administrative/technology team deemed it necessary to change the URLs of all of our pages. This decision was absolutely for the betterment of the project, but it delayed me getting all of the countries opened by January 1st. I am adding several more countries each day. Each country takes about an hour to restructure, so it is a slow process.

The countries that are underlined are countries which members can link to currently. The countries that are neither bold nor underlined are the countries which still need pages created - again a time consuming (but fun) process.

I intend to explain this all in our Jan 8 YouTube presentation, so be sure to tune in. You'll be able to ask questions live if my answers aren't clear enough for you. In the meantime, I may add some further explanation on the page. I realize that what is obvious to me may not be obvious to everyone else.

Countries with an (*) are Top Level Countries. These countries operate independent of other Projects and are independent of the Global Project. I've made a notation at the top of the page to explain this. 

Thanks for pointing out the oversight. 

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Thanks for the explanation.  Explanation looks good for the asterisks.  I would also add an short explanation that the bolded are for those that are active or are in the process of being active space pages.

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Cyprus and Greece have links, but the pages are "Unlisted".

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So Cyprus and Greece have not yet been upgraded from Space pages to Project pages. That's a formality, but be aware that the URLs will change once the upgrade has been made. In the meantime, I've opened them, as well as Luxembourg, for those who are interested. Also, note that Greece and Luxembourg have already begun forming project teams.

Answer 8

Hoping that this is the right place to add that I would like to help improve the country of Ethiopia.

Comments

Hi Shoshanah. I'll be getting in touch with you through private email early next week. In the meantime, be sure to check out our official launch video on Monday.

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Thanks David.

Unfortunately, I can't make the official launch video live (very different time zone), but will follow it up.

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No problem. The show will be recorded so watch when you can.

Answer 9

Hi David! Count me in for Chile coordinator.

Comments

¡Hola Vicki! Excellent news! My main family connections are with Argentina. I will watch the Chile project with a lot of interest.

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¡Hola Steve! It's not confirmed yet as an independent project but I'll be happy to help in the global team... starting by joining the Globetrotters in the next Connect-a-Thon :-P

Answer 10

I would like to be counted in.

Comments

Great Alice. I'll send you a badge. Are there any particular countries teams you'd like to participate with? Or are you content with being a member-at-large?

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David for present I would just like to be a member-at-large until I get my feet wet. Unless you can add me to the United States-Oregon for now. I was raised all over Oregon, but most time in Jackson County. We have several pieces of history here. I have been adding people that have passed away here in the county for awhile. This spring I hope to go to one of our old Pioneer Cemeteries and start adding them to our wikitree. Let me know if that sounds alright and what I should do from here.

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At large is fine. Oregon is managed by the United States project. You can link to the United States project from the Global page and they can help get you signed up with the Oregon team.

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David Thank you.