WikiTree's New and Improved Global Project is finally here!

Question

THE WIKITREE GLOBAL PROJECT

Yes, after months of development, the WikiTree Global Project is now open for the perusal of all members. There is so much to tell here, but I'm going try to keep this post short. What I'd really like everyone to do is head on over to the site itself and begin exploring for yourselves. Then, join Betsy Ko and me on Monday, January 8th, at 6pm EST for the first episode of our new monthly YouTube series, The WikiTree Global Showcase.    

This amazing new show, a spin off from last year's Global Wrap-ups, will follow a similar format of profiling one lesser-known nation each month. We will explore the country's history and demographics as they relate to genealogical research; we'll take a look at a handful of that country's notables through their WikiTree profiles; and we'll share available resources for doing research in that country. Additionally, each month we will be using our selected country to help members improve their genealogical and WikiTree skills by covering such topics as source citations, dealing with foreign languages, finding and posting acceptable images, and locating resources for countries not covered by Ancestry, Family Search, etc. 

That said, our first episode will be a bit different, as it will serve as an introduction to the Global Project as a whole. Rather than focus on a single country, we will take you on a live tour of the site, showing you everything you need to know about navigating the site, joining a country project, or even starting a country project of your own. 

Now, before you head over to the site there are a few things to be aware of:

1) The new Global Project does not replace the old Global Project. At the top of the homepage you will see a tab for Country Projects and a tab for Worldwide Projects. The Worldwide Projects are those projects with a worldwide theme which don't quite fit under any other project's designated theme. Right now, this includes First Responders and Remember the Children, but will likely include others in the future.  

2) The Country Projects Page is now home to the project pages for 197 individual countries. Links to WikiTree's 23 Top Level Country Projects are included here. Please note, however, that these projects will continue to operate independently of the Global Project. If you are a member of one of those projects, nothing should change for you.  

3) One of the first things you will notice is that not all of the country's links are currently working. (Those that are underlined work; those that aren't, don't.) Lesson #1 here is never try to launch a major project during the Holidays. Many of the unlinked pages are up and ready to go, but we are having to tweak their URLs which is taking a little longer than expected. Those countries whose names are bolded, have projects ready and waiting to be opened. Expect access very soon.

4) If there is a country project you are interested in working with, and it is not bolded. let me know and I will move it up to the top of the list.

So with that, lets head over to the Global Project Page. Look around, explore a few countries, and consider what countries you might be interested in working with. Expect lots of bugs in the initial weeks, but also feel free to leave any feedback here. Then tune in next Monday to explore the site further with Betsy and I and join in the live chance to discuss your thought with us directly.   

THE WIKITREE GLOBAL PROJECT

Comments

Excellent initiative David. I would like to see the Nordic Model work in Latin America.

Answer 1

Since the United Kingdom Project is no longer active, might it not be a better idea to include links to the England Project, Scotland Project and Wales Project in the main list? (Ireland is already there).

Comments

If I was looking for Cornwall where would I find it on a Country list? The answer is I wouldn't find it on the list that is on the The Wikitree Global Project as it isn't considered a Country by most standards even though some people consider Cornwall to be their Country and they don't consider themselves English or British and they don't consider it part of England or the United Kingdom at all. And this is direct from someone I worked with from St Minever. 

There are projects set up that encompass parts of countries and ones that encompass multiple countries. They do not belong in a list of countries. The countries listed on the page are the countries that pretty much every source agrees are countries and unfortunately none of them call England or Wales or Scotland or Northern Ireland separate countries. Northern Ireland does not have a separate project that is top level but the other three do. There are also top level projects that are regions of countries or that encompass multiple countries. So do we include them even though they don't represent countries that are on sourceable lists? 

I ask that anyone can prove with sources that the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is not a country to show your sources. I have shown my sources in previous comments and David has shown different sources showing the United Kingdom is the Country. No one has shown sources disproving this. Just statements without facts have been provided. So just like on Profiles show the sources please. 

I have found plenty of sources that omit England, Scotland or United Kingdom but that does not prove that Gloucestershire, Yorkshire or West Lothian are considered countries. It is the same with records in the United States as well where they will omit the United States and sometimes even the state as well. 

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It's a debate that still rages, Darren. Scotland is a member nation of the United Kingdom. Perhaps you'd like to view Scotland's government's current viewpoint:

Renewing democracy through independence.
 

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I think we are getting mixed up with current-day geographic listings and WikiTree Projects.  The Global Project has as their mission statement: "The primary purpose of the Global Project is to provide a link to a WikiTree project or resource page for each nation of the world" (my emphasis added).

England, Scotland, and Wales are WikiTree Projects. The United Kingdom is not a WikiTree Project.  Therefore, it should not be listed.

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Darren, Northern Ireland did not start until 1921.  I can show you LOTS of suggestions for profiles that are using that as a country before 1921 and those locations need to be corrected, just like many profiles that have UK or United Kingdom on them before 1801.  Plenty of suggestions and plenty of profiles that you are welcome to help correct.  Some of us have worked very hard to clear the suggestions and plenty of profiles that do not 'yet' have suggestions that have these inaccuracies in them.  There are plenty of profiles that have sources on them that show UK before 1801, does that make them correct?  Is it correct that UK is not on everything after 1801? There are plenty that have no country or UK, but that doesn't make them correct either.  

And now you want Northern Ireland to be considered a separate country?  Why not check out Wikipedia for Northern Ireland which says it was a government created in 1921 for part of the country?  It also says that that 'part' of the island is referenced in different terms - country, province or region?

 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland

No one is suggesting that every project on Wikitree should be an entry in the Global Project. It was stated that the original Top Tier country projects would not change, but when it is difficult to find them, they are being changed if people look to this 'project' page to find the other Country projects. 

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And it's fixed.  

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Thank you!!

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Thanks Eowyn!

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Thanks Eowyn, you’re a star!

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As a Moderator, I suggest ending this discussion about the component countries of the UK at this point. These exchanges have veered to some extent off topic, and are likely to do so more if they continue, and the list of Projects set out by the Global Project has been amended (thank you again, Eowyn).

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Final Comment

The primary purpose of the Global Project is to educate. And boy have I been educated over the past few days! When dealing with the political realities of 200 countries, opinions are going to vary over how things are handled. That's okay, we can work them out here as I believe we've just done. 

I can't possibly be an expert on all 200 world nations. If I get something wrong, I rely on you to let me know. Be aware, however, that seemingly simple solutions can sometimes have unforeseen ramifications. Thus, recommended changes may need to be thought through a bit before they are implemented. But do know that the leadership team and I do hear you.

Thank you to those who provided input on both sides of this matter, and I do hope you find the Project useful moving forward.

Answer 2

Congratulations on getting the project up and running, David! It looks exciting.

FYI the main image on the page comes up blank for me. This is because it is called Social Media Images-5, and my content blocker doesn't like it. I can live with that myself, but if you're concerned it may affect other people, you might want to put the image or a variant of it on a differently named free-space page.

Comments

I've never heard of that before. I've gone ahead and renamed the file and have saved it as a .jpg if that makes a difference. Let me know if the problem continues.

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Thanks David. I turned my content blocker back on for the page and can see the picture, so I think your fix worked.

Answer 3

Well done David! Thanks to you and all those who've helped you to put this together! I'm joining when I can find the join up post :-)

Comments

We'll post a Join Up message after the YouTube session on January 8.

Answer 4

Great work David and to all those involved! I can’t wait to see where this takes us!

My first impression is that all of the country names are in English. Shouldn’t they be in their language of origin with possibly the English name in brackets, or vise versa?

Comments

The Problem will become which Language do we use when the country has multiple languages. And the Global Project is not doing anything with existing Top Tier Projects and they are named in English even though their language of origin is not English for some of them.

So if the countries not in top tier were changed to the official languages it could result in French speaking countries being created in French but the France Project staying recorded as English as the Global Project is only providing a listing to it and nothing else.

Having the names listed in the relevant countries for the official languages would be a good thing to have and I will add the local name to the countries I have set up for this project myself

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I know that there is no easy answer to this, but this needs to be considered to make WikiTree more worldwide.

I understand what you are saying about France but it doesn’t really work that well as the name is English/French bilingual as is Canada.

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I will make a brief comment on the Global Project's stance on this issue, but would like to see an extended conversation. if desired, moved to its own thread.

1) The Global Project 100% supports the use of native languages on WikiTree profiles and elsewhere.

2) The Global Project also recognizes that most WikiTree users speak English. Most do not speak the language of their distant ancestors. Thus, to display names, places and other information solely in a native language will likely hinder many more people from discovering their ancestral heritage than it will help.   

3) We could add the native language alongside the English language, but as Darren pointed out, some countries have numerous native languages. India, for example, has 23 official languages. Which one would we choose? Or should we list all 23?

4)  The issue of multiple languages on WikiTree is an old one to which, as Liza states, there is no easy answer. The new Global Project has been a massive undertaking and we are far from done yet. Figuring out the proper language translations for all 197 countries is something we are simply not prepared to take on. So for now, we will continue to maintain our site in English.

5) All that said, individual country projects will have the ability to choose however they wish to display their project and managed profiles as they see best fit for their own purposes.  

6) This topic is the subject of an age-old debate on WikiTree which reaches far beyond the limits and authority of the Global Project. If you'd like to continue this conversation, I ask that we move it to its own thread which will allow for greater input from the broader community.

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Thanks for your reply David

Answer 5

If you Google "Countries of the World", you will almost aways find the United Kingdom on any list of sovereign nations. This is not so for England, Scotland, or Wales. Try visiting Wikipedia, Britanica, the United Nations, the CIA Factbook, the World Bank, etc. Not one lists England, Scotland or Wales.

But that's not really the issue here. It seems our members representing England, Scotland, and Wales do not appreciate being relegated to second tier status, and that's understandable. They are Top Level Projects and I have no problem recognizing them as such.  

However, if I were to add them to the main roster of countries, and eliminate the UK, what should I do with the British Dependencies and Overseas Territories Project? If not the United Kingdom, what county should oversee them?

Comments

Perhaps you could list them under B for 

British Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories since we have a British Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories project?

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I apologise for the large font. It was unintentional and happens sometimes when I’m posting on G2G - something to do with my iPad setup that I don’t quite understand . I use large font sizes as default since I am partially sighted.

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And then what about all the other dependencies that various countries look after? By a rough count I can find 40 of them.

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Maddy is right in her suggestion. The British Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories are not part of the UK. They have their own Project and it should be separately listed.

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The United Kingdom Project, which has not existed for some years, has been removed from the list of Country Projects, and the England, Scotland and Wales Projects, which do exist, have been added. I believe this confirms the need to list the British Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories Project.

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It was just explained to us why England, Scotland and Wales should not be lumped to together as a single nation (U.K.), and the offense some took at my having done so. So now educate me further please. Why do we lump the British Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories together as if they are a single entity? Do Jersey, Bermuda, and the Falklands really have that much in common politically, historically, or genealogically? Following the same line of thought outlined above, wouldn't it be more prudent to give them the same respect we are giving England, Scotland, and Wales by giving each of these countries their own project rather than lump them together as if they were one?

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The Crown Dependencies - the Isle of Man and the Bailiwicks of Guernsey and Jersey - have the same monarch as the UK but are separate from the UK. The constitutional arrangement dates back to medieval times. Each is a separate entity. They are self-governing with their own laws, as I know from having negotiated with them for the UK government when I was a UK civil servant. If you want a fuller description, Wikipedia has a more detailed explanation at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Dependencies.

The British Overseas Territories are also self-governing, and are not, and have never been, part of the UK, though the UK is responsible for defence and foreign relations. The UK monarch is their head of state, but again that does not make them part of the UK, any more than the UK monarch also being monarch of Australia makes Australia part of the UK.

The list of Projects is a list of Projects. Currently we have a single Project for the Crown Dependencies and the British Overseas Territories. Therefore this Project needs to be listed. There is an argument for suggesting that Guernsey, Jersey and the Isle of Man should be listed separately with a cross reference to the Crown Dependencies and British Overseas Territories Project.

We should not be discussing here whether there should be separate Projects for Guernsey, Jersey and the Isle of Man. That is a separate discussion, and the normal procedures for proposing new Projects would need to be followed.

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https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:British_Crown_Dependencies_and_Overseas_Territories  is a space page not a full project. So it is in no way level with the Australia Project or the Canada Project or any other Country project. So why should this be listed in a list of countries? That is what the list on the Global Project page was representing. For a list of Projects you can look at https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Projects.

And why should the constituent parts not be actually listed under it's separate parts instead of being lumped together. Just because there is a space page lumping them together means nothing if an existing Country comprised of constituent countries is not valid even though there are plenty of sources available proving that fact. 

It can't be one rule for one area and a different rule for another area. 

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Darren, please see what is said elsewhere in this set of conversations about Cyprus and Greece, which currently just have a space page and are not at this moment formal Projects.

I see the list of country Projects as a finding aid, intended to be helpful to WikiTree members. We have a Project - admittedly informal at this moment - which covers Guernsey, Jersey, the Isle of Man and the 14 British Overseas Territories (some of the Territories have no permanent inhabitants). The question for the Global Project is, does it make sense, and is it helpful to WikiTree members, for the list to omit all mention of this Project?

If I was a WikiTree member living or interested in say, Guernsey, I would expect this list to help me find out whether there was a Project covering Guernsey.

I will not comment further in this set of exchanges.

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I haven’t so far commented on any of this because I can see the emotion running through how many are articulating themselves. I just wanted to say I agree with Michael.

All Wikitree & Country projects are user generated and part of the purpose of the global Project it to enable people to find their geographic area of interest more easily, and encourage collaboration.

The history of how the England, Scotland and Wales Projects Emerged from the now defunct U.K. project is not complicated, it was down to a ‘need’ from users.

As it currently stands, Elizabeth and the members of the British Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories operate as one project, and I’m sure they would be delighted to gain more members, so have maximum visibility.

David, you are absolutely correct... the Falkland Islands, Bermuda & Jersey probably have little in common and in the long run, over time as the project grows and more people show interest I’m sure some of these Countries will wish to become stand alone projects. However, at present we are where we are.

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Ok, let's not let this thread get too far off track.

Michael, you gave an excellent explanation. It's a complicated history and relationship these countries have, and I am appreciative of your concise explanation. It truly helps me going forward.  

Darren, your point is also well taken. This is a roster of countries, not regions of the world or WikiTree projects. You will notice that Nordic Nations, Quebec, Puerto Rico, Appalachia, etc. - all strong WikiTree Projects - are not included on the list. (At least at this time).

Michael makes a second good point, though. If I have ancestry in a land that is not technically a "country" is there not still a place for me in the Global Project? My goal for this project is to have a place for everyone, not just most people.

Launching this project has had me quite busy over the past few days. Yesterday alone I received 62 messages about it! I'm going to place any further changes on hold until after Jan 8th. Please tune in then to watch Betsy and I on our premier YouTube show and hear a little more about our ideas for this project and how we envision it all working. For now, let me continue to focus on the 199 countries already on the list. Then, once the seas have calmed, we can talk about how best to ensure that these additional world regions/projects get included.

Please let me reiterate that I am 100% appreciative of all the feedback and am certain that in short time we can come up with solutions that will satisfy everybody.

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Hi David,

I appreciate how much work and thought you are putting into this, however I don’t really think we are too far off track. You Specifically asked that if England, Scotland and Wales were listed separately what should you do with the Crown Dependancies Team Page?

As this has now been done Maddy, Michael and I believe you should include that space page under B for British Crown Dependencies and overseas territories.

We honestly aren’t trying to complicate the issue for you, just genuinely trying to respond to your question.

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How about considering postage? If you have your own postage stamp that makes you a country in my opinion. Lots of places with the same monarch. Perhaps I should say "have had" as I'm not sure about stamps nowadays.

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Thanks, C MacKinnon. There are stamps issued by the British Antarctic Territory which has no permanent residents. I doubt anyone would call it a country. There will be other examples - leaving aside stamps used for purely local purposes (and collectors) by, for instance, some islands off mainland Britain, and other examples of stamps issued by localities and territories which would not be regarded as countries.

Answer 6

This is a great initiative David and crew.  Thank you for all the hard work you've put into it.  I think once the UK issue is sorted out, you'll find you have support from all top tier Projects.

As you said, there will be bugs to work out... the UK Project (not a Project) issue and collaboration with affected Project leadership being a top priority, I hope.

Answer 7

In the list of Country Projects, why are some in Bold but are not links?  I don't see an explanation.

Comments

And why do some countries have an asterisk, some with links, but not all with links?  An explanation would be helpful

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Thanks Linda. You ask a great question.

The countries that are bold are the countries that currently have Project Pages created. At the last minute, however, the administrative/technology team deemed it necessary to change the URLs of all of our pages. This decision was absolutely for the betterment of the project, but it delayed me getting all of the countries opened by January 1st. I am adding several more countries each day. Each country takes about an hour to restructure, so it is a slow process.

The countries that are underlined are countries which members can link to currently. The countries that are neither bold nor underlined are the countries which still need pages created - again a time consuming (but fun) process.

I intend to explain this all in our Jan 8 YouTube presentation, so be sure to tune in. You'll be able to ask questions live if my answers aren't clear enough for you. In the meantime, I may add some further explanation on the page. I realize that what is obvious to me may not be obvious to everyone else.

Countries with an (*) are Top Level Countries. These countries operate independent of other Projects and are independent of the Global Project. I've made a notation at the top of the page to explain this. 

Thanks for pointing out the oversight. 

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Thanks for the explanation.  Explanation looks good for the asterisks.  I would also add an short explanation that the bolded are for those that are active or are in the process of being active space pages.

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Cyprus and Greece have links, but the pages are "Unlisted".

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So Cyprus and Greece have not yet been upgraded from Space pages to Project pages. That's a formality, but be aware that the URLs will change once the upgrade has been made. In the meantime, I've opened them, as well as Luxembourg, for those who are interested. Also, note that Greece and Luxembourg have already begun forming project teams.

Answer 8

Hoping that this is the right place to add that I would like to help improve the country of Ethiopia.

Comments

Hi Shoshanah. I'll be getting in touch with you through private email early next week. In the meantime, be sure to check out our official launch video on Monday.

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Thanks David.

Unfortunately, I can't make the official launch video live (very different time zone), but will follow it up.

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No problem. The show will be recorded so watch when you can.

Answer 9

Hi David! Count me in for Chile coordinator.

Comments

¡Hola Vicki! Excellent news! My main family connections are with Argentina. I will watch the Chile project with a lot of interest.

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¡Hola Steve! It's not confirmed yet as an independent project but I'll be happy to help in the global team... starting by joining the Globetrotters in the next Connect-a-Thon :-P

Answer 10

I would like to be counted in.

Comments

Great Alice. I'll send you a badge. Are there any particular countries teams you'd like to participate with? Or are you content with being a member-at-large?

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David for present I would just like to be a member-at-large until I get my feet wet. Unless you can add me to the United States-Oregon for now. I was raised all over Oregon, but most time in Jackson County. We have several pieces of history here. I have been adding people that have passed away here in the county for awhile. This spring I hope to go to one of our old Pioneer Cemeteries and start adding them to our wikitree. Let me know if that sounds alright and what I should do from here.

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At large is fine. Oregon is managed by the United States project. You can link to the United States project from the Global page and they can help get you signed up with the Oregon team.

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David Thank you.