Kempe Gateway Ancestors Magna Carta trails are sourced; any volunteers to join the project and finish the trail?

Question

The profiles in the Kempe family's trail to the Clares and John de Lacy have all been sourced. That is a great start for the Magna Carta project's trails.

Does anyone want to volunteer for the project and finish this trail? That would include adding biographies, cleaning up the profiles (removing gedcom junk, etc.), confirming dates, confirming relationships.

When the trail is complete, any descendants of the Kempe family's Gateway Ancestors will be able to follow a well researched trail back to a few surety barons!

Thanks for considering joining our team!

You can follow our progress at the Magna Carta Base Camp!

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Magna_Carta_Team_Base_Camp

Answer 1

[[Pearson-3638]] has volunteered to complete this trail!!!

Answer 2

I have an interest in this as I have also worked on the Gissing Kempes, from whom I descend. I have a webpage which includes a section on them: http://users.skynet.be/lancaster/Jonathan%20Wrench%20senior.html#Kempe

I note there that there are some doubts raised about parts of the pedigree. See Muskett's "Suffolk Manorial Families" Vol. II. (Which, as I mentioned is online in google books and at least visible if you are in America.)

A few notes:

• It looks like the Curzon wife is a very mixed up reference that no two sources agree on. Must have been a similar name, but the placename got garbled in records?
• It looks like the Alleyn/ Gedding/ Aspale royal descent is not controversial though.
• I never saw a source which claimed to be able to explain the ancestry of [[Clifford-551]] so that will be interesting.
• The critical point my research suggests to please look at is concerning the parents of Robert Kempe ([[Kempe-26]]), and his apparent Curzon wife.

Regards

Andrew

Comments

Andrew -

Thanks for your answer.

The line does not go back through the Kempes to Kempe-26.

From the Gateways, it immediately goes through their mother, Dorothy Harris-1320 to Despenser-26.

At Magna Carta Base Camp, in the comments, you'll see an outline of the line in the comments. Base Camp: http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Magna_Carta_Team_Base_Camp

Are you interested in getting involved in the project?

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Hmm. Did the above original post get changed? It used to refer to William Kempe as the reference point, rather than Edward now mentioned above?

Anyway, the way I came to see the connection to Kempe-26 was by clicking on him and then using the "Ancestor List" function. If you do that for William or for Edward you also see a Curzon, married to a Robert.

Actually I made a mistake though. The husband of the Curzon is Kemp-376. Their son is Kempe-26.

So as far as I can see, the line does go through Kempe-26?

Concerning being involved, I guess I just got involved 

Regards

Andrew

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Yes - Should be the Gateway Kemp-215, not Kempe-215. Kemp-215 and the rest of the Kempe Gateways all descend through Dorothy Harris, not Kempe-26.

The profiles have all been sourced, so you can follow the trail of sources, too.

Comment referenced above from Base Camp that outlines the line:

Kempes' lines start with Harris-1320, and go up via Waldegrave-18,

Walgrave-17,
Waldegrave-3,
Wentworth-47,
Wentworth-48, 

Despenser-26, Tiptoft-1, Tiptoft-8, Badlesmere-24,

Clare-638,
Clare-639. 

Clare-639's parents were Clares and Lacys. Voila!

This will open up Despenser-26, who connects with many other Gateways.

Glad to hear you are interested in the project! Check out base camp and get a sense for what we're doing; building trails, cleaning up all the profiles, adding well sourced bios. We'd love to have you join us and grab some trails to build!

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Hi again,

Well the notes I made above, which reference to sourcing notes on my webpage, are maybe helpful already? I pointed to areas of doubt.

Just having "a" source is not the end of the road for me, because sources disagree, and therefore where there are differences what can we do except look to the reasoning, the primary documents, and indeed to the dates of the sources?

Note: Muskett is still a very old book, but he was writing about the Hitchen book when it was already published, and still older.

Please have a look.

Andrew

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Andrew,

On the questionable line that you refer to, I think you raise several good points.

My suggestion, for starters, would be to pick one point (the Curzon wife, possibly?) and we focus on that connection. At this point, it is buried in this g2g, so I would suggest starting a new g2g where you connect it to that particular profile. In that post, you can lay out reasons and sources for why you draw your conclusions and ask for input.

This would give folks with an interest in those profiles, who are familiar with the sources, a chance to weigh in.

I'd be happy to help you think about how you want to lay that out, if you need it.

Are you familiar with our sub-project, "Category:Questionable_Gateway_Ancestors"? We have had many similar g2g discussions around these questionable lines and have removed a number of dubious connections. You may want to refer to those discussions as a reference for how you lay out your (Curzon) thinking.

Feel free to private message me, etc., if I can help further.

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I might find time to post notes on some of the individuals, but for sure anyone working on this should look at Muskett's Suffolk book, and if possible also Walter Rye's Norfolk Families. (The later is unfortunately not online.)

Concerning gateway ancestors, as a non-American my interest and likely contributions are going to be on the English side of the discussions.

Andrew

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I think the most important problem is with the parents of Kemp-376 and I have put notes there to help.

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Thanks Andrew - appreciate all you're doing!