Hugues de Montfélix (c 1108-)

+8 votes
324 views

Where to start ?

This Hugues de Montfélix is currently set up as son of Thibaud II de Champagne, unknown mother, which would make him a great-grandson of William the Conqueror, and half brother of Henry 'the Liberal", Thibaud of Champagne, Alix/Adèle queen of the Franks, and so on. A wife, Alix de Pierrepont, has been attributed to him.

I have gone through the links listed on the profile and come to the conclusion that this "Hugh" is not Abbot Hugh, another illegitimate or perhaps (?) legitimate son of Thibaud. This profile is clearly meant as Hugues de Montfélix and the profile manager knew what he was doing when he married him to Alix de Pierrepont. Hugues and Alix would be parents of Hugues II de Pierrepont who married Clémence de Rethel (this matches Charles Cawley's conclusion that Hugues II was probably the son of a sister of Guy de Pierrepont ie. daughter of Roger de Pïerrepont and grand-daughter of Ingobrand).

Admitting that Hugues de Montfélix and his marriage to Alix de Pierrepont are correct (which is credible), there remains the question of his father. To sum up: the hypothesis that he was a natural son of Thibaud comes from a long dispute between Hugh and the abbot of Gorze, when Hugh usurped lands belonging to the abbey of Gorze to built himself a castle, Vanault. During this dispute Hugues was consistently supported by Thibaud de Champagne, and he eventually won the battle. As an obscure Hugues de Montfélix, he seemed to have showed little respect for institutions (in other words, he showed an arrogance which would be unusual for someone of obscure Montfélix parentage). Then he and his son married way up. The research has been carried out by Michel Bur, who appears to have fine credentials. His work here was primarily around the construction of the castle of Vanault itself.

There. This clear as mud message is a cry for help. I don't know if Hugues should stay connected to Thibaud as this seems to be speculation - educated, well researched speculation as far as I can tell - but I'm not experienced enough to tell !! I also have issues with the Pierrepont family of this era as the English branch seems to be conflated with the Picardy one, including Hugues de Pierrepont and Clémence de Rethel.

EDIT - forgot to mention that profile manager has been contacted, has responded and seems happy to let us work the profile provided he remains on the trusted list.

EDIT2 - also forgot to mention that this story has found its way to Thibaud's Wikipedia page, so we really have to address it.

WikiTree profile: Hugues de Montfélix
in Genealogy Help by Isabelle Martin G2G6 Pilot (590k points)
edited by Isabelle Martin

2 Answers

+5 votes
Thanks for working on this one Isabelle. I am guessing we need two profiles instead of one?
by Andrew Lancaster G2G6 Pilot (148k points)
I mean we probably we need to create a profile for Hugh the cleric, yes. Has anyone read the Abbot Hugh book (by ? Cline) that is quoted everywhere?
+5 votes
I would document both stories in the bio.   Unfortunately some of these older time periods just do not have the records needed to prove something which is why so much history is based on circumstantial evidence rather than hard proof.
by Laura Bozzay G2G6 Pilot (864k points)
I tried to describe the situation as well as I could in the bio - both in French and English.

However since there are no documents showing that Thibault gave clear indications that this Hugues was his son - I believe he should be disconnected. I still think the theory is attractive and it's right to give it in the biography, but that's not enough to keep the connection, even marked as uncertain.
I would say go ahead and disconnect him from his parents, leaving the information in the biography.  It's been several weeks since you asked and no one has objected . . .

Darlene - Co-Leader, British Isles Royals & Aristocrats 742-1499 Project
Thanks Darlene. I posted a message on the page for Thibaut de Champagne for the Conqueror project and will just give it a few more days.

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