Where do you put "Lady, Dame, etc" women's titles?

Question

The men's titles seem to be covered really well, but not the Ladies.  Also, ranks of titles for the ladies.  Thank you.

Comments

Where a woman has a peerage in her own right, it'll often have a territorial designation to go with it - Isabel Countess of Surrey, etc

In many other cases, the title won't match the surname - Martha (Lovelace) Johnson, 8th Baroness Wentworth

Another complication arises with people like Lady Thatcher, who was never called "Lady Roberts".  

Similar issues arise with wives of peers.  Especially, it seems wrong to use the prefix with the maiden name.

Likewise, with wives of knights and baronets, it's wrong to use the honorific with the maiden name.

And in all those cases, it's normal in modern practice to use "Lady" + surname, without the first name.

All of which argues against trying to use the Prefix field at all.

It's less of a problem with "Lady" for daughters of earls, but really not necessary, though sometimes they just don't seem properly addressed without it.

Modern Dames in their own right do use the first name - Dame Judi, not Dame Dench.  I might put Dame in the Prefix.  But then again, if you add DBE, you've got a duplication.

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I've found 16th c wives (actually usually widows)of knights using the prefix Dame in their wills.

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Dame used to be normal for wives of knights - with the husband's surname.  Lady was kept for nobility.  But logic gave way to flattery.

It was ever thus.  Only the emperor was Augustus, but his wives, his daughters and his mother were all Augusta.

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So is it best to just put the women's title in the Bio?  How about the 'Nickname' field, could you put Lady Thatcher there?

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Titles do go in the nickname field according to the EuroAristo naming standards, but it is usually only the highest title, so you could put Baroness Thatcher of Kesteven in the nickname field.

Answer 1

Since John answered as a comment rather than an answer, and in an effort to have this show up easily, I am repeating his comment here.

Please be aware of the European Aristocrats naming standards, located here.  As John mentioned, titles go in the nickname field.

Darlene - Co-Leader, European Aristocrats Project

Answer 2

You put the title in the Prefix field.  Lady in the same place as Sir.

Comments

Unless the baby girl was born into the title of Lady (Such as the royal family) they would NOT have the title of lady with their maiden names.

They usually only get that title based on something their HUSBANDS have done.

See RJ's comment above

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A slight correction Robynne, any daughter of an Earl, Marquess or Duke is known as Lady as a courtesy title.  Members of the royal family who use the title Lady, do so because their father's hold a title, not necessarily because they are members of the extended royal family.

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Thanks John.

Does anyone in England have the title of Marquess?

Is that the Milford Haven fellow - Is he a Marquess? I think he is related to Lord Mounbatten - Who was killed back in 1979 or was that 1989?

Marquess seems to be rather an unusual title.

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Lord Melbourne explained it to the young Queen Victoria: "people were mere made Marquises, when it was not wished that they should be made Dukes".  So it's a slightly backhanded honour.

Nigel Paulet, 18th Marquess of Winchester, is "Premier Marquess of England" on the perverse grounds that all the other extant Marquesses created in England before 1701 have been promoted to Dukes, and his line is the only one left that are still mere Marquesses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_marquesses_in_the_peerages_of_Britain_and_Ireland

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There are numerous holders of the rank of Marquess in England, Great Britain and the United Kingdom and Marquis in Scotland.

Anne Boleyn was made a Marchioness in her own right by Henry VIII.

Going back to the original question, many women are born plain ordinary Miss or the Hon but when (usually) their grandfather croacks and their father or in Scotland, mother inherits granddad's title they are upranked to "Lady". Equally if a distant cousin of their father dies without an heir, under primogeniture suddenly their father inherits a title and they become Lady. Such happened when the 6th Duke of Sutherland died in 2000. A third cousin who had been plain Mr Egerton suddenly became the Most Noble and Rt Hon. 7th Duke of Sutherland. Mr Egerton's elder son suddenly became the Marquess of Stafford and each of his daughters were transformed from Miss X Egerton to Lady X Egerton.