Parentage of Katherine (Browne? Butcher? Unknown?) Budd

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I am moving a discussion which has gotten too long and too involved on the profile of Katherine Browne-1231, wife of John Budd.  

There are a number of secondary sources which identify her as the daughter of Sir Anthony-Maria Browne, 2nd Viscount Montagu.  It is my contention that this is demonstrably wrong.  Sir Anthony Maria Browne, 2nd Viscount Montagu had a daughter Katherine, but she married William Tyrwhitt who didn't die until 1642. She could not have married John Budd.

So, my questions are:

  1. Is there any actual evidence that her LNAB was Browne?
  2. Is there any evidence at all that she is in any way connected to the Browne family?
  3. Is there any reason to leave her parents connected?
WikiTree profile: Katherine Budd
in Genealogy Help by Joe Cochoit G2G6 Pilot (261k points)
recategorized by Jillaine Smith

Cathryn Butcher was christened  24 Sept. 1598 at Saint Andrews, Chichester, England.  Her Father is Richard Butcher,

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JMX3-N5F : 11 February 2018, Catheryn Butcher, 24 Sep 1598); citing , index based upon data collected by the Genealogical Society of Utah, Salt Lake City; FHL microfilm 504,430.

Can someone clarify the distinction between the Stepney John Budd and the Chichester John Budd? Were they two different men? And which was the immigrant to Connecticut/Long Island?

For a side-by-side comparison of the two different John Budds associated with two different Katherine's-- only one of which was the immigrant family to Connecticut, please see this Google doc:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PI-RdQQNwSw8NVv1WmJHCTg7cyvUcN8Wo7bpnCwGAC4/edit#

1 Answer

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Best answer

My answer to question 3 is: no i.e they should be disconnected.

I cannot see any connection to the Brownes of Cowdray.

Her aunt Katherine Browne was previously linked as wife of John Budd. This was demonstrated to be untrue by her will, written as Katherine Tregonwell.

The only source I could find for this was a  written by a Mildred Herron and mentioned in a forum post. http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~budd/genealogy/Budde.htm

Katherine Brown, daughter of Anthony Maria is shown to be the wife of William Titwhitt in both the Visitation of Sussex and that of Lincolnshire. (I am wary of the Sussex one as  it marries her aunt Katherine  to a vague Throckmorton rather than Tregonwell,   and the other daughters don't all match those known from elsewhere

However, the copy of the 1634 Lincolnshire visitation in 'notes on the visitation', looks to be contemporary; William Tirwhitt was still alive in 1634, he signed it He had 3 children Francis (aged 3 quarters) Robert ( aged 16) abd Mary (aged 5).

Five years later, in 1639 William wrote his will,(transcript) his children were Francis and Mary,both under 21 and Robert. It is clear he was wealthy, his daughter would receive £3,500 at 21 or on marriage.  His wife Katherine was made joint executrix with eldest son Robert and had joint charge of the household. His will was probated in Feb 1647/8. The grant of probate was to Katherine relict  (that much is clear, I think it may says she was the sole surviving executor but my Latin is not strong)

My other argument is that  Anthony Maria, was like much of his family a Catholic .They were immensely wealthy, they held masses in private, paid recusancy fines and were, until the Civil war,  able to deflect many of the charges against them Even so Anthony spent time in the Tower after the gun powder plot.

 https://thehistoryofparliament.wordpress.com/2018/11/05/catholic-peers-and-the-gunpowder-plot/

The children of this family tended to marry those from other wealthy  Catholic families 

In his will he Anthony Maria asked to be buried in a Capuchine habit ) West Sussex archives. ,Regretably he doesn't mention his children except for son Francis who received his fathers gold cross, containing a piece of the 'true'cross. We do know that  two   daughters, Lucy and Brigit  became nuns in exile . He did in fact have two daughters named Mary, one married an Arundell, one a Petre, His daughter Frances married John Blomer of Hathrop, and Katherine married a Tyrwhitt. Each of these familes were known for their recusancy. 

 The two versions of the Budd family story differ from each other and from history. (one a Saxon, Lord Budd, the other a Norman who ') 

I'm sure that there was a John Budd and he may have married a Katherine Browne but see no evidence for her being a daughter   of Vis. Montagu.

by Helen Ford G2G6 Pilot (477k points)
selected by Joe Cochoit

Thank you Helen.  The Browne wills conclusively show this link is wrong.  Apparently Gustave Anjou worked on this family at some point raising the possibility that this is another one of his genealogical frauds.

The next question is, is there any evidence at all of Katherine's LNAB?

As far as I know, no, there isn't a primary source indicating this surname.  All references appear to be secondary and I don't know of one that circles back to a primary source.  Richard Torrens's website highlights Gustave Anjou's "research" with the following essay: "A Genealogical Scam?"  Exhibit 7 indicates that Anjou's work extended to the Budd family.  I haven't seen details other than that, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if the Browne lineage found its genesis with him.

The Budds have long been associated by marriage with the family of Hachaliah/Hackaliah Brown (see, for instance, Donald Lines Jacobus's History and Genealogy of the Families of Old Fairfield, Vol. I).  I've seen dozens of family trees indicating Katherine was Hackaliah's daughter, which likewise appears unsourced.  I'm going to go back to searching for wills; with so much progress being made with John Ogden's ancestry by Charles Boetsch, I hope there is likewise illumination of Mrs. Katherine Budd's ancestors.  

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