Can Lord be a prefix?

Question

I am wondering if Lord can be a prefix. My 15th g grandfather Thomas Dykes was Lord of Whitehall in England in the 1500s.

Answer 1

Though Lord can be a prefix, in this case "Lord of Whitehall" should added  to his biography. Lord of Whitehall Thomas Dykes would be too cumbersome a prefix and wikitree suffixes don't give enough space:  Thomas Dyjkes, Lord of Whitehall, would be fine in the biography.

Answer 2

No, "Lord" should not be a prefix.

In fact, it should not be suffix either.  Lord of Whitehall is not a real title.  It just means he owned the land by feudal sub-tenancy in medieval England.  It should be noted in his biography that he owned land in Whitehall, but it is not in anyway part of his name.  It is no different than me calling myself Lord of Villa Park, because I own a house here.

Comments

From the Visitations, it appears he should have a second wife who was actually the mother of Leonard Dykes.

https://archive.org/stream/pedigreesrecorde00sainrich#page/40/mode/2up

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Though Thomas Dykes inherited Whitehall from his mother Christian Salkeld, daughter and heir of Sir Richard Salkeld of Whitehall, the primary seat for these Dykes was in Wardhall.  So, 'Lord of Wardhall' would be more appropriate anyways - this still doesn't belong in the name.

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I a sorry to contradict Joe but he is incorrect. In the UK there is a very specific circumstance where Lord is not only correct but entirely appropriate. Whereas the eldest son of a Duke or Marquesse (Marquis in Scotland) takes his father's next senior title as a courtesy title, ALL younger sons automatically take the courtesy title of "Lord". Therefore for example Lord James Douglas-Hamilton was for many years the ONLY appropriate way in which to describe the 2nd son of the late Duke of Hamilton. When Lord James inherited the Earldom of Selkirk from a cousin the appropriate way to describe him would be James "Earl of Selkirk" Douglas-Hamilton . When he disclaimed his title and then subsequently became a Life Peer, it would be James "Lord Selkirk of Douglas" Douglas-Hamilton. I put titles in as Nicknames since Wikitree does not have an easy way to recognise European titles and ranks of nobility. The title is NOT a name. Using the example above "Lord of Whitehall" was NOT a title but an English Lordship of the Manor so I would automatically insert it as a nickname. In Scotland the situation is equally complicated because we have around 10,000 Baronial titles which are recognised in law by someone having the right to add "of [place name]" after his or her name but this is NOT a peerage in itself though the holders of many Baronial titles also hold Orders of Knighthood such as Baronetcies or hold Peerages. However they would be addressed by and referred to using their highest dignity at the time.

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I guess I was thinking primarily of the example given where it it is absolutely not correct to put in the prefix Lord for someone who was simply a lord of the manor.

The courtesy titles of Lord and Lady for younger sons and daughters of Dukes and Marquesse is certainly correct, however, I am not sure we should be using them in the medieval period when I am not sure the practice was in effect.  It just adds to the confusion of who should be called Lord, as in this case.

We do not put Lord of (the manor) X in the nickname field.  Only actual peerage titles should go here (King, Duke, Marquess, Earl, Viscount, Baron, etc.).  Many of not most pre-1500 individuals held several (up to dozens) of manors.  It's silly to put 'Lord of' for all of them.  They are simply land holdings held by feudal tenancy.  They are an important part of a person's biography because records relating to land holdings (IPMs, feudal aids, feets of fines, charters and grants) are the primary way of tracing medieval lines of descents, but they don't belong in the nickname field.

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Joe I agree putting Lord of the Manor titles would be best suited in the Biography unless the individual was known by a particular Lordship title.

In Scotland of course we have Baronial titles as I said and these are dignities granted by the Scottish Crown pre 1707 and recognised by the Lyon Court. Indeed many Lords Lyon and Lyon Heralds have themselves been holders of Baronial titles e.g. Sir Malcom Innes of Edingight, Sir Thomas Innes of Learney, Burnett of the Leys etc. I always put these in the Nickname section because that is how they are known and referred to historically e.g. James Sutherland, 1st of Kinstearie, William Sutherland 10th of Duffus and so on. In a family like mine where only 10 names account for more than 85% of men and we are so inter-related, it is often the only way of telling one family member from another. It is a pity the Wikitree index doesn't show the nickname box as it would make it so much easier to find profiles within a large and ancient noble family like mine.

Answer 3

According to the visitation of Cumberland and Westmoreland, Thomas Dykes m Margaret Martindale(and then Isabelle Pennington by whom she had Leonard) This family were described as 'of Warthall'.

https://archive.org/stream/pedigreesrecorde00sainrich#page/40/mode/2up/search/dykes

None of the individuals in the pedigree appear to have a title, though they may have been the local lords of the manor

A deed signed by Thomas Dikes of Warthole in 1533 says Thomas Dykes Esq.

http://www.archiveweb.cumbria.gov.uk/CalmView/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=DHN%2fC%2f144a%2f5&pos=8

This lead me to some details about Warthole Hall, (Wardhall; Warthol; Wardel; Wardell) a 'probable fortified Manor House' in Plumbland Cumbria (formerly Cumberland) The aerial photo may show the outline of the building.  Apparently the land where the house  was built was originally held by the monks of Calder Abbey and after the reformation was held by the Dykes family. The notes speculate on what sort of house they originally built.

http://www.gatehouse-gazetteer.info/English%20sites/732.html

(Calder Abbey was dissolved in 1536 but the earlier deed shows that they were 'of Warthole' in 1533  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calder_Abbey)

Answer 4

In addition, Edward Dykes (1600-1699) doesn't appear to have any sources connecting him to the Cumberland family & living to 100 years old seems like quite an achievement. He's not in the visitation mentioned earlier.

Comments

I'm also not a big fan of heraldry but the London Visitation for "Dyke" has Or, 3 cinquefoils sa (but alas, no Edward), matching what's in the Cumberland entry for the first quartering.