Do we have a procedure for removing Profile Managers?

Question

Hi all,  I know this has been discussed in various forms, but I just wonder what the proper procedure is for thinning out Profile Managers. Several of us were removed as Profile Managers from a profile this morning.  I don't really care about being unceremoniously dumped (it has happened a time or two before ) because this particular profile is not near and dear to my heart, but I would have appreciated a note of forewarning.

When I have felt a need to thin Profile Managers for a profile, I have posted a public bulletin board message on the profile asking for volunteers to remove themselves. If that is too slow or the PMS are unresponsive, a simple notation of thanks, but we have too many Profile Managers so you are being dumped () would be appreciated.  

I am trying to make light of this not-too-dire situation (please laugh with me!) but I would like to know if there is a bit of procedure guidance for these occasions.  

Comments

While I personally think that profiles shouldn't have more than two or three profile managers, I know a lot of folks get highly offended when they are removed.  I think a lot of this stems from not understanding that the real issue is whether or not you're on the trusted list and that managers are more of a point of contact or responsible party.  

Folks new to WikiTree often don't fully understand or appreciate the collaborative nature of the site and remain territorial when it comes to being removed as a manager.  As a rule, I don't remove folks unless it is a HSA/PPP.  I run into a lot of profiles that probably should be thinned out, but don't for fear of offending someone.

I think the underlying issue is educating folks as to the difference between profile managers and the trusted list.  If the majority of users can get that nailed down, I doubt that removing managers would be such a sticky issue going forward.

---

I have been searching for your very answer. What is the difference between the trusted list and profile managers. This is a source of my indecision when taking an action , I don't know if I am allowed to take the action, THANK YOU.

---

I have a simular problem now . I checked Error  project & found that on profile of my baby brother  it showed an error & showed  Magnus Salgo as Manager instead of my self. . it is just my brother & I & I do not want anyone else as his profile manager. what can I do about this  ?/

Answer 1

I suggest that we post something to let people know that PMs are being removed.  Kitty's way, posting and asking people to remove themselves, works if the PMs are active.  I like the idea of posting on the profile page that removals are going to happen in 3(?) days unless someone specifically wants to remain a PM.  Then go back after the set time and remove PMs.  This way gives notice but also lets a PM indicate a continuing interest.

Comments

I like that idea. If you ask for volunteers to remove themselves, I suspect it would be the more active PMs that would volunteer, leaving inactive ones as the remaining managers. Doing the reverse, where you ask people to say that they want to remain as PMs, ensures that you're keeping the more active ones.

---

I would, however, like an exception for HSA/PPP profiles, where an arborist could, without advance notice, "trim" excess profile managers (converting them to Trusted List) who have been inactive on wikitree for six months or more. I only do this after merging a gazillion duplicates, resulting in a gazillion (okay, more than 5 or 10) PMs. I've been doing this for months and have received only one complaint; it was an error on my part.

---

I agree, Jillaine. I do the same thing. If there are too many PMs and some of them haven't made a contribution (to any profile) in several months, I remove them.

---

Excluding managers who haven't been active for 3 months, 6 mos, or ever since they downloaded a gedcom:

I think a time limit like 3 days is entirely UNFAIR.   Some treers have lives outside wikitree - spouses, kids, families, jobs etc and may be active but not get here every week - let alone every 2- 3ays!    And then there are vacations and other of life unexpectant bumps.

That would be treating someone like an 'employee' with a deadline rather than a volunteer with contributions.

If you're that impaitent, pick a different profile to merge - there are plenty out there that need help.

---

Anonymous, please recall that being removed as PM does not remove that person from the Trusted List. AND if an error is made, such a person can always request to be added back.

That said, I would encourage PM-trimmers to check the Changes tab and NOT remove the most active person on that list, unless they are no longer active on wikitree (i.e., no contributions for the last six months).

Answer 2

I can appreciate that those who are cleaning up and improving a profile won't want to wait three days to get underway. There is a certain rhythm to the clean up process and waiting around for PMs to take action can disrupt the train.

How about this? The person who is taking over the clean up job gets to call the shots. That angel can decide if a co-PM is needed since they are accepting responsibility for the profile development. If they want to remove any or all of the other PMs, they can. For this privilege, they agree to complete the profile merges and clean up as needed.

They will post a public bulletin board message that says something like, "There were too many profile managers on this profile. Thank you for your contributions, but in the  interest of  time and profile improvement, I commit to merging and cleaning up this profile. I am thinning the number of profile managers and setting previous managers to Trusted List members.  If you wish to return to PM status, please contact me. Thanks, again for your help." 

I suggest that a paragragh of this nature be included in the Help Index: http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Profile_Manager#Can_you_have_multiple_Profile_Managers.3F_If_so.2C_many.3F

Answer 3

Unceremonious dumping is a way of life in EuroAristo, and will continue to be as long as I'm leading it. There are just too many managers involved for it to make sense to do anything but simply remove them.

Comments

A simple "thank you for your contributions" posted on the bulletin board wouldn't be too time or work intensive. Post the thank you message on the profile bulletin board, it is sent to all PMs, and then start removing the extra PMs.

Actually, the committment clause I listed above is unnecessary, but a thank you note is a courtesy.  Maybe a bulletin board note that says something like, "There were too many profile managers on this profile. Thank you for your contributions, but I am thinning the number of profile managers and setting previous managers to Trusted List members. If you wish to return to PM status, please contact me. Thanks, again for your help." Copy, paste and send. Very easy and much nicer than being dumped.

---

I know how insensitive this seems, but people just don't seem to understand the scope of what we're dealing with. These massively common ancestors have to have non-project managers removed over and over again. Giving this kind of notice just isn't practicable.

Answer 4

Sorry about that.

Comments

No problem, Becky.  I completely understand.

---

I usually "dump" fellow supervisors because we can just add ourselves back on.

I find most of the merge requests for profiles were I am a manager by daily browsing the "Browse Merge" file.

I'm not a professional, only do this genealogy stuff because I'm interested.

---

Yeah, like I said, I don't particularly care about this profile, and I removed myself from the trusted list because there are plenty who do care. I just think we need to nail down a common procedure because everyone has their own way of handling too many PMs.  This topic comes up every few weeks and it seems some consistency would help.

Answer 5

Why does it matter how many are on a profile? If they are in some way connected, wouldn't it be better to leave them there?

Comments

That's the purpose of the Trusted List, Kirsty. The purpose of a Profile Manager is to take active responsibility for the profile.

---

I am new. Please tell me what happens to my tree if I end up being removed as a profile manager. Why would I even want to be involved in this site if collaboration means a selected few collaborate. I get the World tree thing I'm pretty sure my tree already exists on Wiki tree all the way back to France in the 0800s. I am on this site to learn, about my family, about HOW to research. What is not helpful is when people who have been around awhile answer with the assumption that the person asking has some foundation understanding of how this all works. I would clean up my GEDcom if I knew how to find it. Then figured out what to do with it. I would do alot of things if  I knew HOW I certainly will not attempt to trace my EuroAristo family. I'm scared to death of Roger.  I am not being whiny about this I want to learn

---

Hi Trudy!  So glad you joined us.

If you are removed as a PM, nothing happens to your branch on the WikiTree.  It remains right where it was and the open profiles can still be improved by everyone, the same as before.

If you want to remain a PM, I think you would only need to ask. The thinning process is only to narrow the number of coordinators on particular profiles. Too many coordinators and everyone ends up thinking that someone else with handle this merge, that clean-up or the next question. It is simpler to have one or two PMs to handle the coordination and lots of Trusted List members to improve the profile.

---

I would add that we need to do a better job as a community to stress the distinction between Profile Manager and Trusted List. You don't have to be a PM to be an active collaborator. And in cases of profiles of people older than 200 years old, you don't even have to be on the Trusted List to actively collaborate.

---

Jillaine -

I'm spending this afternoon reading questions and replies to become more knowledgeable on WikiTree.  That's how I came across your reply of 11-16-2013 noting it didn't matter if you wanted to work on a profile of someone older than 200 years, etc.  I'm puzzled about this because this morning the WikiTree No-No Gnome told me I could not add a child where both parent and child were well over 200 but would have to apply for addtion to the Trusted List on the child's profile.  What am I not understanding on this?

---

Elizabeth, since my posting, wikitree has instituted a new policy that people wanting to edit profiles of people born before 1700 need first to successfully answer the questions on the Pre-1700 quiz.

But no, one does not have to be on the Trusted List to edit profiles older than 200 years.  So whoever told you that is incorrect. If the profile has a Project Protected label on it, it is requested to discuss major changes before making them. That would include adding children or spouses.

Now, if you want to change the Last Name at Birth (aka LNAB), you need to be a Profile Manager of said profile-- of whatever age-- AND if said profile is Project Protected, a Leader will have to remove the protection first. But chances are, if a profile is protected, it's LNAB should not be changed. In any case, discuss changes before making them on protected profiles.

All this may seem confusing-- it took me awhile to fully understand it. The intent is to keep profiles open while protecting the privacy of the living as well as protecting the significant research that has gone into the oldest profiles.

---

Where the No No Gnome would be correct is if the child was less than 200 years old but the parents were older than 200 years old.

---

Jilliane - - I'm sorry not to have responded to your two posts sooner.  When I said "No No Gnome" I meant the little message box that comes up to tell us we can't do something, which is what happened.  It wasn't a person/Wiki member, it was the software.  It will take a bit to go back and get which ID it was on but I'll get that info - - should I post it here or to you directly?  - - "Betsy"

P.S. - Thanks for the explanation/info.  This type of explanation helps me learn so much.

---

Betsy, is it possible you tried to edit a pre-1700 profile before you successfully completed the pre-1700 quiz?

Place the profile ID here.  That way if someone gets to it before me, you'll get your answer sooner.