Declaration of Arbroath Connection Combat: Robert the Bruce vs Edward Longshanks

Question

Our Connection Combat this week honors the Declaration of Arbroath of 6 April 1320, Scotland's declaration of independence. On the one side we have Robert the Bruce, declared King of Scotland, and on the other we have King Edward I of England, known as "Longshanks".

Here's how the game is played:

1. Check your connection to Robert the Bruce and Edward Longshanks (click "Connection to Me" in each profile pull-down menu).
2. Click "Answer this post" below. Choose Team Bruce  or Team Longshanks and say how many degrees are in your chosen connection path.
3. See if you can verify each relationship along your connection path with a reliable source [more explanation].
4. Post comments below your answer as you progress and when you run into trouble. Someone else might be able to help.

The players with the closest verified connection wins!

There are seven additional ways to win and enter the Connection Combat Hall of Fame. These require clearing your path of any and all little "WikiTree Weevils."

This game runs from April 2-9. 

Do you want to help others? We call this "combat" just for fun. It's really more about collaboration than competition. Please participate in your team's Aid Station and stop by when you have questions or problems.

• Team Bruce Aid Station
• Team Longshanks Aid Station

You can also chat live on Discord. See the Connection Combat help page for more information.

Comments

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Answer 1

They are BOTH my 21st great-grandfather on my mom's side.  But, if I have to pick one, I pick Robert the Bruce.

Answer 2

...........

Answer 3

Pretty sure I'm not close enough to "win" this one, but both are my 22nd great grandfathers on mostly confident lines. TLDR, I'm team Longshanks because I have more confident lines from him.

I have 5 lines of descent from the Bruce, all through my half Scots/Irish great grandmother, Isabelle Lyman. Only one of those lines has an uncertain link marked, which is Christian Erskine, "uncertain" daughter of Lord Robert Erskine. Her profile does cite the Scots Peerage though, which states their relationship, her marriage, and the child from which I descend. There is nothing on her profile or her father's explaining the uncertainty. She's pre-1500 though, so I can't do any work there anyway.

I have 17 lines from Longshanks, 7 through Isabel again, no uncertain markers. I'm very confident those lines are correct.

There are 8 lines through my other great grandmother, Jewel Gilley. I'm mostly confident in those lines, but all 8 have the same uncertainty at the children of Archibald Archelaus Prater. A respected family researcher supports the connection, but I haven't been able to determine what sources support his conclusions yet.

The last 2 lines are through my great grandfather, Roy Smith, but both of those lines have multiple uncertain markers, which I have worked off and on for years. Those questions are not going to be solved quickly. I have no confidence in those lines at all.

Answer 4

Declare for The Bruce!

26 degrees from both houses…

The Bruce is my 18th Great Uncle…

Answer 5

Great idea. I have had a blast doing research. A whole new world has been opened to me.

21 Generations Direct Ancestor to King Robert I
22 Generations Direct Ancestor of Edward I, Longshanks

Comments

Team Bruce all the Way!!

Answer 6

This is a surprising one,  research from 50 years ago came up with Robert Bruce as an ancestor, but the connection is in a surprising path, through the Massachusetts Bay Colony people who ended up at Cape Sable Island in Nova Scotia.,  

Robert Bruce is my 23rd Great Grandfather,  and Edward Longshanks is my 21st Great Grandfather, so I guess Team Longshanks

Answer 7

I take the peacemaker between Robert Bruce and Edward I Plantagenet. 4 degrees! only. They are pre-1500 though, so I can't do any work there anyway.  

0. Robert Bruce.

1. His son, David II Bruce.

2. His wife, Joan Plantagenet.  Changed from Berwick upon Tweed, Northumberland, England to South Berwick, Berwickshire, Scotland at the time of her marriage.  Improved the title in the image. Added the location at France. 

3. Her father, Edward II Plantagenet.

4. His father, Edward I Plantagenet.

Done! Paths are clear and verified at either end.

I'm 29 degrees from Edward I, Longshanks, 30 degrees from Robert Bruce.  Both are on my mum's side and have no blue blood!

Answer 8

It's 28 degrees to 28 degrees for me.  As my maternal line is Maxwell, with deep roots in the Dumfries, Scotland area, including a long long long ago stint in Caerlaverock Castle, I'm settling the tie and going with team Robert the Bruce!

Answer 9

Well, I'm 22 degrees from both of them (they're both my 20th great-grandfather) Robert on my mother's side, Edward on my father's side. I'm torn, but since I have a lot of Scottish kin (Boyd) I'll go that way.

Answer 10

I'm 23 degrees from Longshanks and 25 from Robert the Bruce. I already found a problem spot in my connection to Longshanks, but I think I'm going to stick with it and see what it takes to get a verified/sourced path to him.

Comments

That was quicker than I thought! 26 degrees, verified and weevil-free as well as I can (there are a few that are actively being worked on by the Magna Carta project, and I am not a member of any of the pre-1500s projects, but they look reasonably sourced). 

0. Edward I Plantagenet →
1. Edmund Plantagenet (his son)→
2. Joan Plantagenet (his daughter)→
3. John Holand (her son)→
4. Constance Holland (his daughter)→
5. John Grey (her husband)→
6. Robert Grey (his brother)→
7. Humphrey Grey (his son)→
8. Mary Grey (his daughter)→
9. William Dyxwell (her son)→
10. Charles Dixwell (his son)→
11. Edward Dixwell (his son)→
12. John Dixwell (his son)→
13. Bathsheba Howe (his wife)→
14. Jeremiah Howe (her brother)→
15. Elizabeth Howe (his daughter)→
16. Benjamin Doolittle (her son)→
17. Titus Doolittle (his son)→
18. Titus Doolittle (his son)→
19. Lorania Doolittle (his daughter)→
20. Jerome Palmer (her son)→
21. Edna Palmer (his daughter)→
22. Leonard Kennedy (her son)→
23. Private →
24. Private →
25. Private →
26. Erin Breen

Answer 11

I'm missing two on Robert and one on Edward but don't have the authorization to get them to confident.

20th great grandson

1. John is the son of Joan Sharon (Pollock) McKee (1952-2020) [confident]

2. Joan is the daughter of Muriel (Cameron) Pollock (1919-1983) [confident]

3. Muriel is the daughter of Harry Burton Cameron (abt.1882-1956) [confident]

4. Harry is the son of Daniel Cameron (1858-1922) [confident]

5. Daniel is the son of Peter Cameron (1821-1893) [confident]

6. Peter is the son of Barbara (McPherson) Cameron (1779-1854) [confident]

7. Barbara is the daughter of Murdoch MacPherson (1762-1863) [confident]

8. Murdoch is the son of John Ian MacPherson (1743-1778) [confident]

9. John is the son of Donald of Cruben-more Breakachie MacPherson (1709-1795) [confident]

10. Donald is the son of Jean (Cameron) Macpherson (aft.1685-aft.1718) [confident]

11. Jean is the daughter of Ewen Cameron (abt.1629-abt.1719) [unknown confidence]

12. Ewen is the son of Margaret (Campbell) Cameron (abt.1606-aft.1634) [confident]

13. Margaret is the daughter of Robert (Campbell) Campbell of Glenorchy 3rd Bt (abt.1575-1657) [confident]

14. Robert is the son of Duncan Campbell (1550-1631) [confident]

15. Duncan is the son of Colin (Campbell) Campbell VIth of Glenorchy (1512-1583) [confident]

16. Colin is the son of Mariote Stewart (abt.1490-abt.1529) [confident]

17. Mariote is the daughter of John (Stewart) Stewart of Balveny First Earl of Atholl (abt.1440-1512) [confident]

18. John is the son of James (Stewart) Stewart Black Knight of Lorn (abt.1395-aft.1451) [confident]

19. James is the son of Isabel (MacDougall) Stewart (abt.1364-1439) [confident]

20. Isabel is the daughter of Joanna (Isaac) MacDougall (abt.1337-bef.1399) [unknown confidence]

21. Joanna is the daughter of Matilda Bruce (bef.1321-1353) [confident]

22. Matilda is the daughter of Robert (Bruce) Bruce King Robert Ist of Scots (1274-1329) [confident]

This makes Robert the 20th great grandfather of John.

21 to Edward like many already and 20 to Robert like many still.

1. John is the son of Joan Sharon (Pollock) McKee (1952-2020) [confident]

2. Joan is the daughter of Muriel (Cameron) Pollock (1919-1983) [confident]

3. Muriel is the daughter of Harry Burton Cameron (abt.1882-1956) [confident]

4. Harry is the son of Daniel Cameron (1858-1922) [confident]

5. Daniel is the son of Peter Cameron (1821-1893) [confident]

6. Peter is the son of Barbara (McPherson) Cameron (1779-1854) [confident]

7. Barbara is the daughter of Murdoch MacPherson (1762-1863) [confident]

8. Murdoch is the son of John Ian MacPherson (1743-1778) [confident]

9. John is the son of Donald of Cruben-more Breakachie MacPherson (1709-1795) [confident]

10. Donald is the son of Jean (Cameron) Macpherson (aft.1685-aft.1718) [confident]

11. Jean is the daughter of Ewen Cameron (abt.1629-abt.1719) [unknown confidence]

12. Ewen is the son of Margaret (Campbell) Cameron (abt.1606-aft.1634) [confident]

13. Margaret is the daughter of Robert (Campbell) Campbell of Glenorchy 3rd Bt (abt.1575-1657) [confident]

14. Robert is the son of Duncan Campbell (1550-1631) [confident]

15. Duncan is the son of Colin (Campbell) Campbell VIth of Glenorchy (1512-1583) [confident]

16. Colin is the son of Mariote Stewart (abt.1490-abt.1529) [confident]

17. Mariote is the daughter of John (Stewart) Stewart of Balveny First Earl of Atholl (abt.1440-1512) [confident]

18. John is the son of Joan (Beaufort) Queen Dowager of Scots (-abt.1445) [confident]

19. Joan is the daughter of John Beaufort KG (abt.1371-1410) [confident]

20. John is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399) [confident]

21. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377) [confident]

22. Edward is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1284-1327) [confident]

23. Edward is the son of Edward Plantagenet (abt.1239-1307) [confident]

This makes Edward the 21st great grandfather of John.

Answer 12

This was really interesting for me. I was able to get my brother interested because of the different paths from Robert.

James Douglas    20 degrees    18th GGF 7 paths
Alexander Fraser of Touchfraser and Cowie    20 degrees    19th ggh  44 paths
Edward Keith Marischal of Scotland    20 degrees    18th GGF 55 paths
David Lindsay Lord of Crawford and Byres    20 degrees    18th ggf 54 paths
Joan Countess of Strathearn    20 degrees    18th ggm 5 paths
Agnes Randolph Countess of Dunbar and March    20 degrees    18th  43
Robert Bruce King Robert Ist of Scots    21 degrees    19th GGF 142 Paths
Andrew Leslie VI of Leslie    21 degrees    19 ggf 9 paths
William Third Earl of Ross    21 degrees    21 ggf 29 paths
Henry Sinclair IInd of Roslin    21 degrees    19 ggf 25
Edward I Plantagenet    22 degrees    20th ggf 46
Roger of Methven    23 degrees    1C20xR 60 paths to Eve (Unknown) Comyn.

But since my lines have been fighting for 700 years, I can't join either team with a clear conscience.

Comments

Your connections look very similar to mine.  Our families must have run in the same circles at that time.  I am directly descended from all of these listed people as well...but 23 deg from Earl of Ross, on my mother's side, which is interesting, because my maiden name is Ross, on my father's side.

Answer 13

As I am 69% Scottish, and only 24% English + some Irish.... I will have to jump on Team: Robert the Bruce and he is also my 21st Great Grandfather on my fathers side. Longshanks is also my 21st Great Grandfather but on my mothers side.

Answer 14

28 degrees Robert the Bruce
27 degrees King Edward I

So, its team Edward for me

Answer 15

both are great grandfathers

R Bruce is my 19th

Edward is my 21st

I'm 43%English and only 35% Scot according to my Ancestry DNA but I'm the same haplogroup R-M269 as the Bruce

Answer 16

20th GGS of Robert the Bruce; 21st GGS of Edward Longshanks. I'm going with Team Bruce because, while my Dad is ostensibly the Scottish side of the family, it's my Mother's side that's connected to Team Bruce. He's the path to Edward.

I've been telling her that DNA says she's Scottish, but maybe now she'll believe me 

Answer 17

Interesting, I answered this post some weeks back and my answer was for team - Robert the Bruce.

I also verified with my connection tree. Not sure where it is now. However, here it is again... I'm 21 degrees from him.

0. Robert the Bruce

1. Margery Bruce - his daughter

2. Robert ll Stewart - her son

3. David Stewart - his son

4. Eupheme Stewart - his daughter

5. Euphemia Graham - her daughter

6. Elizabeth Hamilton - her daughter

7. John Hamilton - her brother

8. Robert Hamilton - his son

9. James Hamilton - his son

10. James Hamilton - his son

11. John Hamilton - his son

12. John Hamilton - his son

13. Margaret Hamilton - his daughter

14. Elizabeth Smellie - her daughter

15. Janet Chambers/Chalmers - her daughter

16. John Newlands - her son

17. John Newlands - his son

18. Jessie Newlands - his daughter

19. Esther Kidson - her daughter

20. Jessie Gray - her daughter

21. Me - Megan Woodward - her daughter

He is my 20th G/Grandfather.

Answer 18

Whew, this could be a real challenge! I am 22 degrees from Robert the Bruce, and supposedly his 21st great granddaughter. There are 48 different paths of connection!

I am 23 degrees from Edward 1 Plantagenet and also his 21st great granddaughter. There are 44 different paths of connection!

By DNA I am 31% Scottish, so I'm going with Team Robert the Bruce.

Comments

Bruce-129

Bruce-270 his daughter

Isaac-10 her daughter

MacDougall-301 her daughter

Stewart-4030 her son

Stewart-1555 his son

Stewart-1604 his son

Stewart-1602 his daughter

Mackenzie-163 her daughter

Macintosh-8 her daughter

Campbell-13585 her daughter

Toshach-6 her daughter

Sutherland-1102 her son

Sutherland-991 his son

Sutherland-990 his daughter

Ring-73 her son

Ring-830 his son

Ring-829 his son

Milhoan-23 his wife

Milhoan-58 her brother

Milhoan-57 his son

Milhoan-56 his daughter

McCollum-1850 me

---

I found sources for Walter Ring, so every step has some now.

Answer 19

I am team Bruce. I am 22 degrees from Robert the Bruce through my maternal grandmother, Gladys Colson Berry. I am a direct ancestor of Bruce, being his 22nd great grand daughter by way of the Bruce-Stewart connection. I was also 23 degrees from Edward  Longshanks through my maternal grandfather,  Sewell Berry.

Answer 20

I'm well and truly stuck on this one I'm going with Team Bruce.