Is there a project that covers pre-1700 Switzerland? [closed]

Question

Hello,

What pre-1700 project covers the territory of modern Switzerland? I was not able to find one, and would like to coordinate / consult with an experienced pre-1700 WikiTreer before creating new profiles. So far, I have been working with the Switzerland project, but there is no special "pre-1700" project yet - as far as I know.

I am preparing to create a number of profiles which could eventually be added to the WikiTree, centering around the GULDIN family in St. Gallen and Bern from about 1500 through 1600. My sources are archives of St. Gallen and Bern, often cross-verified with such online resources as the Historic Family Lexikon of Switzerland. Once all necessary connections can be proven, these profiles should provide "deep ancestry" for Guldin-59. 

To allow advice, collaboration and comment BEFORE I create the actual person profiles, I have created the Open Space profile noted below - where my transliterations, translations and conclusions may be reviewed.

Here are the sources I am using: (see free-space profile below)

Should I contact one of the other pre-1700 projects or know about any style guidelines before proceeding? Thank you!

Comments

To: I don't know your name!

I am fairly new to WikiTree and don't understand much of the "below" stuff that you wrote about in your email.

To be honest I didn't understand what you wrote either.

Fred Hebel

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Hi Fred,

I'm sorry if I did not write clearly. Believe me, I understand how confusing (and sometimes frustrating) it can be, trying to figure out how WikiTree works. (I'm pretty new, myself!)

But don't give up! The community is really very, very helpful (and patient) in my experience. To start, I have sent you a private message. Feel free to contact me directly if that didn't answer your questions. Or, if you prefer, you can post a question on G2G and perhaps others may be able to help you better.

Answer 1

As a region project, the Switzerland Project should cover the full span of Swiss history, including pre-1700 and post-1700. WikiTree has some topical projects, such as Mayflower and Puritan Great Migration, that are exclusively (or nearly so) focused on pre-1700, but regional projects like England, Netherlands, Italy, Germany, and Switzerland are not restricted by time period. Some of these projects may establish "teams" within the project that focus on a particular time period.

Comments

Hi Ellen,

thanks for your response, which I interpret as meaning that there is NO NEED to create a separate pre-1700 project for Switzerland, although many other regional projects do have parallel "pre-1700" projects, as far as I can tell. As a member of the Switzerland project, I take that as a green light to add pre-1700 profiles as needed (while doing my best to follow the various relevant guidelines, of course).

One immediate question remains: should the new profiles be categorized/tagged as "pre-1700"? Or should that high-level category be omitted?

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Where did you find a "pre-1700" category for individual profiles? We do have Category:Reliable Sources for Pre-1700 Profiles (for pages about sourcing for this time period), and there are some "by time period" categories for topics like wars and immigration ships, but I am not aware of a pre-1700 category.  

The system automatically displays special messages about pre-1700 editing any time we edit a pre-1700 profile. Those messages are generated from the birth date on the profile; they don't have to do with categories.

FWIW, the Switzerland project has not created a "pre-1700 reliable sources" page, but the resource information on the project page spans the centuries and should provide appropriate guidance.

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What Ellen wrote. I also think the normal Switzerland Project already covers all time frames and it doesn't need a separate pre-1700 project. I also wouldn't see the point of it, as the sources are more or less the same and the politcal structure also didn't suddenly change in 1700.

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Hi Ellen,

I guess I may be using the WikiTree vocabulary incorrectly. My understanding was that a pre-1700 profile should be cleared with "the appropriate project", and I was refering to the fact that there is no project for Switzerland listed in Help:Pre-1700 Projects (wikitree.com).

I was of the impression that the profile should be categorized with the "lowest level" project category that was relevant. Perhaps I have confused stickers, categories, projects, tags or whatever the correct WikiTree terminology might be. Good thing I didn't attempt a profile yet, right?! ; ) 

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I sent you a private message, Gary.

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Thank you Ellen! That message was very helpful - I think I'm finally starting to understand some of the terminology better. Your support is very much appreciated!

Answer 2

If there is a "Pre-1700" project started I would like to join.

Fred Hebel

Comments

Hi Frederick!

After the discussion (below) It looks like we won't need an actual "pre-1700 Switzerland" project. I will be cautiously adding some profiles in the next few weeks and would be glad to collaborate with you if you are also interested in trying to ensure that our Swiss "pre-1700" profiles follow all the guidelings as much as possible! I don't think anyone would object if our G2G questions regarding such profiles are tagged "pre-1700" and "Switzerland" so we can find and respond to them more easily!

Answer 3

Hi Gary

I'm not aware of any pre-1700 Switzerland Project, as the normal Switzerland Project is quite small. But of course, I might be wrong.

Please keep in mind that the Historic Family Lexikon of Switzerland is a private website, so you should always have other primary sources as proof (also for profiles after 1700). Otherwise I suggest you follow the general WikiTree [https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Pre-1700_Profiles rules for pre-1700 profiles]. If you think the "then and there" locations for birth, marriage and death are too different from "today" locations, you could add the location category for "today", which will group those profiles. You could also add location categories if you are working on many profiles from the same location. If you need help with location categories, I can try to assist you.

What might be helpful: you could add the transliterations in the profile next to the source. I sometimes do this on profiles I research for others that might not be able to read the original source.

If you have specific questions while working on pre-1700 profiles, feel free to ask them here and hopefully someone will be able to help you.

I hope this helps.

Comments

Hi I,

as can be seen in the open space profile referenced above, I am working primarily with the St. Gallen Bürgerbuch, but using other sources (like the Historic Family Lexikon of Switzerland) as crossreference and/or to help me interpret the original handwriting. I am in touch with the archivists in St. Gallen, and have made an effort to transliterate as much as possible (images and links to the originals, as well as my current "work in progress" on transliteration can be viewed in the open space profile, and comments / suggestions, collaboration deciphering the handwriting would be VERY welcome! ; )

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Hi Gary

The space page is a good idea for "work in progress". But when finished, it would be useful to add the transliterations to the respective profiles, as this makes it much easier to follow for someone who just comes across a profile. But maybe you already did so or planned so and I didn't understand that part :-).

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Hi I,

thanks for looking at the "space page".

I have been hesitant to create any pre-1700 profiles yet.  

The space page I am testing is definitely still a "work in progress", and I expect the individual profiles to include direct links to the bits that are relevant. At the moment, I am trying to reconcile the various (sometimes conflicting) biographical details found in the St. Gallen Bürgerbuch with the work already done by others and available in various other places. I don't want to create new profiles until that preparation has been at least brought to a stage where I'm pretty sure I understand and can accurately describe discrepancies which cannot yet be fully resolved.

The jury is still out on whether WikiTree is going to be a good place for me to try to preserve all of the information my parents collected during decades of research. As I become more familiar with some of the old discussions in the G2G community, it seems that there is a delicate balance between trying to facilitate the creation and maintenance of high-quality profiles and trying to "keep it simple and the same as it has always been". Given the views expressed by the WikiTree leadership on various past suggestions for improvement/development, it seems that there is little chance that WikiTree will be able to keep up with rapidly evolving technology.

But that is probably off-topic - another violation of WikiTree conventions. I apologize profusely, and want to repeat my thanks to you and the entire G2G community for all of your helpful comments. YOU are what make WikiTree special, even if some of the technical aspects detract from my overall evaluation of the platform.

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Hi Gary

Okay, I understand now, and this sounds like a very good and thoughtful idea for pre-1700 profiles. This will help to create good profiles.
But also, don't worry: changing the LNAB is complicated due to technical reasons, so the LNAB should be as sure as possible when creating a new profile. Anything else can be edited easily. You can use Research Notes, if some facts don't have sources yet or things are unclear for the moment.
I personally do my research similar to you - first finish the research and then add the families or tree branches to WikiTree. I use an offline genealogy software for my research.

WikiTree has a very high learning curve, so please don't give up early.

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Hi I,

thanks for your encouraging words. I'm interested in the idea of doing initial work offline. That might let me get the bulk of my parents research in a usable form before my dad is no longer able to help me understand their notes and filing system. Hundreds of photographs are about to become "anonymous people" to those of us left behind! Do you upload what you have done offline to WikiTree using the GEDCOM files? Or still enter everything manually? I have extensiv GEDCOM files from their more recent attempt to put their basic info online (mostly on Ancestry.com), but the sourcing notes are all still in various notebooks, and I'm not sure I they actually documented all of the sources they used.

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Hi Gary

Yes, I use GEDCOM files from my genealogy software. You then still have to go through all possible merges, but it imports names, dates, locations, possibly even sources if the software has them properly (I mainly attach the image as source in my software, so that doesn't help for WikiTree and I have to add a proper source to each profile) and it also imports connections / relationships. For me it's a huge relief, because WikiTree doesn't accept my European way of dates, so I would have to add them manually. Gedcom somehow exports the dates that WikiTree accepts them.

Important thing for Gedcoms is to use small files, I recommend something around 200 profiles. I usually go to the "oldest" ancestor and then export all descendants. Of course this always exports the same few relatives of me, but when you have good work in both software and WikiTree, then merging doesn't take long. Might depend a bit on your surnames - very common names will give you more possible matches to look through.

Gedcoms from Ancestry might take a bit more time to clean, as Ancestry often exports what we call "junk" - lots of information that isn't needed for WikiTree, often double information on sources.

As your parents already did a lot of research, I think an offline software might be helpful for you. There are many different softwares, maybe you want to try some until you have one that fits with your needs. They usually have a proper way of dealing with sources and usually they have a name index with years, which helps a lot to work with hundreds of relatives.
Then I suggest to get to all the photographs as soon as possible and write down who is who, when and where was the photograph taken etc.
And then later you can add all information and maybe photographs to WikiTree :-).