Are you adding WikiTree links to FamilySearch?

+15 votes
676 views
We often add FamilySearch source citations to WikiTree.

I was wondering, however, is anyone uploading WikiTree links to FamilySearch.  If so, what are you adding to FamilySearch and where are you putting it?

Thanks!
in The Tree House by Michael Stills G2G6 Pilot (530k points)
edited by Michael Stills
IMHO, sites citing each other as sources is a trainwreck. It is most confounding to find sites that cite each other as authorities in both directions. These are not sources, and treating them as such can be quite pernicious.

If one site provides a valuable source which a researcher has read and comprehended, then the researcher working on the second site should cite the source itself, **crediting** the other site and author who originally cited the actual source at the other site, if such can be identified. Just linking between the two may be a convenience, at best, but easily turns into a case of two undersourced profiles perpetuating and reinforcing unproven or downright incorrect information, making it more difficult to establish what is true, what is false, and how anybody actually came to knownor believe that which is being asserted in the profiles.

These cases of sites citing sites seem to happen most often when nobody actually knows where an assertion originated.
Daphne, my 2 cents. If a site is just citing primary sources, I agree. (However instead of deleting citations to other websites I sometimes move them to a seperate sources section for parallel profiles on other websites.)

OTOH, if another website has an interesting and "non obvious" idea about how to interpret records, then I treat that like I would treat the work of any other researcher and then I would cite it inline if appropriate. (Even if it is a controversial idea, it can be handy to put it in a Research notes section.)
Well, I basically agree with you in principle, Andrew. I love to find a page where someone has posted insightful research. I love to run it through web.archive.com for posterity and cite their work with links to the live page and the archived one, crediting them, and summarizing what they've published, WHILE ALSO making inline citations to the sources they cited in the Wikitree profile, so that the Wikitree profile is complete in its own right, and the next person who comes along can go straight to the sources instead of navigating a series of links to other sites that themselves cite the sources (which may or may not link to a digital version of the source).

It's a nice feeling to know that we're working out the details of the lives our forbears lived, together-ish, building on each other's work.

In practice, though, I've never seen that insightful research business happen (not in my work or others) when it's coming from an ancestry.com tree or a familysearch.org tree, or especially a Findagrave profile. Sometimes someone will do fantastic work digging up unindexed sources and linking to them -- and that is tremendously valuable -- but never have I seen either of those sites serving in any form that would make it sufficient to just link to a one of their pages and say "here is true insight, and there is no need to put contemporaneous sources in Wikitree." You can barely get a word into an ancestry.com profile, and the familysearch ones just don't really get used much, even if someone has linked a bunch of great and difficult to find sources in one of the profiles.

What I do see, in practice, is people linking from one site to the other, with no commentary, no analysis, just one essentially unsourced page citing another essentially unsourced page (this seems to happen most often with Findagrave, I think), almost as if to establish some veneer of credibility for unsourced assertions as to relationships/dates, just because someone else is also making the same unsourced assertions.

And once that's been done, it take MORE work by people who really care about evidence to undo all of this spaghetti of "ancestry.com says" or "Findagrave says", to lay bare the fact that nobody has published an actual source. You have to send them a PM, or write a comment on the profile, negotiating back and forth just to get to the point where a profile is making assertions based on evidence and not making assertions that are not.

So, I've spent more than my allotted 2 cents now, and I think I've stated (or over-stated) my case. Cheers!
You are absolutely right. The cases I am talking about are relatively rare, and normally not something you find in an Ancestry tree. Maybe my post gave the wrong impression.

I do sometimes find new ideas posted online, but for most familysearch or ancestry or MyHeritage trees I would at best only place a link to register which other websites have parallel profiles (and then only when they are good ones).
Nothing I can say about Ancestry trees, because I'm not a subscriber, and get chills whenever I run into a profile that's based only on sources behind the Ancestry paywall.  But I do think it's worth distinguishing FamilySearch user trees from collaborative FamilySearch profiles. I consider the latter very valuable, not as "original sources", but as sources of leads or ideas or hints about other sources.  I don't know how many times I haven't seen something on a "Details" page or "Sources" page in FamilySearch that was in itself confusing and undocumented, but that gave me enough information to find the original source. Same thing goes for other online genealogies, often, yes, containing lots of misinformation, but also mixed with accurate information that can then be followed up and verified. None of these sources should be taken as the final word, but I always appreciate being tipped off to any clue that might lead me to some useful information.

4 Answers

+7 votes
 
Best answer
I am using the "Copy citation" button in the Wikitree profile, and then adding this text to the Familysearch profile under NOTES, and clicking the button for Alert Note. This puts a header on the profile to show that significant research has been done on this person. There can be only one Alert Note, so once you add it, it's the highlighted note. I hope this will help drive more visibility for the work we're doing on Wikitree. Here's an example: https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/9M68-943
by Deb Gunther G2G6 Mach 2 (23.6k points)
selected by Michael Stills
Hmm...this may be useful.  I do not know why but I have seen a rash of my FS ancestor profiles being ruined with false, wrong or no sourcing lately.

Then, for some unknown reason, one person decided to completely change the name of a couple but left all the parents, children and sources.  It was not the typical replacement with another profile.  They completely changed their names and they were not even similar.   It was like, "hmm.. John Smith?, na.., I am going to call you Anthony Huffnagle."  But left the parents and children to be called Smith and all the sources for John Smith.
Deb, I looked at your post on FS using the Alert on Notes. The only thing is - the link to the WT profile is not a live link. Maybe you can go back and make it live so anyone who clicks on it will be taken to WikiTree.
I see what you mean. Is there a way to turn it into a live link?
Deb, try using this: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Gazo-13

This leaves off the end of what is posted now. Worth of a try.
I've made the edit and the link still isn't live. However it does appear less cluttered, and easier for the user to copy the link and then paste it into their browser. Thanks for the idea!

What is up with FamilySearch citations? I have noticed recently that the links are incomplete.

I just created a new profile and the citations are missing  https://www.familysearch.org to make the link complete. So if you copy a citation, you get this: "United States Census, 1940", database with images, FamilySearch (ark:/61903/1:1:VRKT-RVZ : Wed Apr 05 14:54:40 UTC 2023), Entry for Rudulph Mauth and Mallie Mauth, 1940.

I have found this repeatedly and it is not just on the newer census sources. I have gone back and reworked some older profiles and the citations have been changed to this very unhelpful style. 

I realize it is a convenience to be able to copy and paste a citation. I realize that I can go and pull the information myself, which I do when necessary. But I can't help but wonder how many times I put in a citation and did not notice that it was incomplete. And this issue does not make FamilySearch newbie-friendly.

Am I missing something? Is my computer, an older MacBook, missing something? I have contacted FamilySearch, and they are supposedly looking into it. But I have to tell you, it is driving me crazy.

I have noticed this too. Just recently. What can be done? Is there someone at Wkiktree that can find out?
I have reported it to FamilySearch, both by phone and on a discussion page, https://community.familysearch.org/en/discussion/142046/incomplete-source-links-in-multiple-places#latest. There was another, much more succinct discussion about the same time, https://community.familysearch.org/en/discussion/142659/string-in-citation-incorrect. In all cases, they have said it was sent to the right department and that they're working on it. I do hope they will fix it soon.

The FS records with the new non-link style also open a different image viewer if there is an image. But dealing with the non-link strings is a pain… extra effort and time that could be better spent. I’ve been replacing them with the “FamilySearch Record” source template.

Original:

"United States 1950 Census", database, FamilySearch (ark:/61903/1:1:6XT1-BD5Q : Sun Jan 29 15:52:52 UTC 2023), Entry for Francis L Hughes and Nora J Hughes, 6 April 1950.

Edits:

FamilySearch ==> ({{FamilySearch Record |

(ark:/61903/1:1:6XT1-BD5Q ==> 6XT1-BD5Q}}

Final:

"United States 1950 Census", database, ({{FamilySearch Record | 6XT1-BD5Q}} : Sun Jan 29 15:52:52 UTC 2023), Entry for Francis L Hughes and Nora J Hughes, 6 April 1950.

The template converts to a link in preview or when viewing profile.

Thank you for posting this. I only know about few of the templates and this one is a very elegant solution.
I've noticed the change in url format on references for censuses after about 1900. Just guessing, but I think it's just to stop people from creating archives of personal identifying information for potentially living people.

It's obviously not foolproof (it's easy to stick the first part of the url back on) but for censuses from 1945 (eg) it probably shows due diligence in regards to privacy.

Happily, the wikitree sourcer links work just fine.
+11 votes
I was entering a sentence under "Life Sketch", something like "A full biography is available at [profile url at Wikitree] " but noticed just this week that some of these statements have been moved to the "Notes" section by FamilySearch. I have seen others add them under Other Information/Custom Event (Wikitree ID, not url).
by Susan Stopford G2G6 Mach 4 (45.1k points)
The Notes section is new but it makes more sense than the Life Sketch.  It's like the difference between Research Notes and Biography on Wikitree.  Adding a new source is also a reasonable option.
+9 votes

I was adding links in the Sources section of FamilySearch, but stopped sometime in the past. Here is an example as posted for WikiTree profile Angelo-167 under the title "Harry L Angelo on WikiTree".

by Jim Angelo G2G6 Mach 6 (63.6k points)
+5 votes
I've just asked myself the same question and was delighted to find this post. It is not a question of circular citation, it's directing users of familysearch to a thoughtful well sourced profile here on wikitree. It has two advantages 1) we only have to write and source once and 2) it brings people to family wikitree. I think it would be really useful to add this gudiance to the familysearch page. (Also thinking about findagrave - technically they don't allow links to webpages, but it would be easy enough to add a sentence saying that a fuller, sourced, profile could be found on wiki tree IDXXXX. People who are really interested will find wikitree and the relevant profile),
by Natasha Houseman G2G6 Mach 2 (22.0k points)

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