Is Sir Ralph Howard, MP actually Ralph Greville Howard

Question

Previously I sought help tracing my MGF (Frank Howard) and it was suggested I should obtain his marriage certificate (1910) to my grandmother; Having done so he listed Ralph Greville Howard (RGH) as his father.  No certificates or newspaper records for RGH have surfaced after several months but many records for Sir Ralph Howard, MP and later Baronet.  Does anyone know:

a. Was Sir Ralph actually RGH?  Sir Ralph has no recorded middle name.

b. Did Sir Ralph have any children as none have been mentioned in his biographic notes as an MP (Westminster docs)?

My older sister has mentioned that Frank Howard was dis-inherited for marrying a shop-girl ( by RGH ,whose profession on Frank's marriage certificate was given as Gentleman.)    

Any suggestions for how to proceed further will be most welcome.

Thanks.

Answer 1

Hi Phil. For your question (a), are you referring to the Sir Ralph Howard with this Wikipedia page? His dates were 1801–1873, so the birth date is very different from about 1830 which you have listed on the profile for Ralph Greville Howard.

I wonder if it would be worthwhile for you to investigate Charles Howard, 17th Earl of Suffolk? He had a son and a great-grandson both with first name Greville.

Comments

Thanks, Jim,

Yes to your Q about Wikipedia, a reference in the article refers to official biography produced by HoP staff, and there are multiple newspaper references (on FindmyPast) to said MP attending weddings, soires, and Bank meetings (he was a director of a Dublin bank) - but none mention that person as RGH.

I will explore your suggested alternatives,  the "suggested date" for my GF's father RGH was speculative as GF was born in 1856 ( so RGH could have been  20-30's when GF born but your suggestions equally possible).

Elsewhere in G2G I have noted a 1921 Census transcription for my GF giving his birth-place as "Dublin" (like other sources) but this one attributed it to a tiny hamlet (in or near Suffolk). None of the other sources explicitly say "Dublin, Ireland" as one would assume the city was meant.  Either way intriguing cracks in a long-standing brick-wall,  Thanks for your help.

Phil p.

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Thanks for the reply, Phil. Good luck in your research!

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Hi, Jim,  Sorry to be a pest but - whilst I found Charles Howard as per your Wikipedia hint I didn't find his son + grandson = Greville Howard - probably me, but could you possibly provide a direct URL or other hint, please.

Thanks,

Phil P

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Sure Phil. The son Greville Theophilus Howard (22 December 1836 – 28 July 1880) is mentioned on Charles's Wikipedia page in the Family section. The great-grandson Greville Howard (St Ives MP) has his own Wikipedia page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Howard,_17th_Earl_of_Suffolk#Family

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greville_Howard_(St_Ives_MP)

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Thanks, Jim,

The MP I had seen mentioned when I first looked for RGH - clearly 2-3 generations later than RGH - who sired my GF in 1855 as GF was born in Aug 1856 according to Census records.

The "Charles Howard" ref I now see has a Greville Theophilus Howard (1836-) who is listed as having a son who became a barrister ( but isn't named) - GTH would be the perfect candidate as the age of 20 in 1856 could be old enough to have married  and produced my GF - so my challenge will be to identify "the Barrister".   Wish me luck.

Thanks for your patient help

Phil P.

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Right! The name "Greville" runs in the Suffolk Howard family. So it may not be too long a shot to research whether Robert Greville Howard was descended from or related to them.