Im looking for all Native Americans who have gedmatch.

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My Gedmatch is UJ9343921

Im looking for others with NA who are willing to let me compare our dna. Those I know for fact I share NA dna with are Pumanky,Cheraw and Cherokee.

I know so much of our history has been lost and I may never prove anything but only to myself. The major company's seem only to show my European Ancestry but I know for sure that I have none European ancestry.  Middle Eastern, Moorish and Native American.  I also possibly connect to the Melungeons.

If you match me please share your number and tribe or otherwise the family you belong to. Thank you for your time.
in Genealogy Help by Joseph Putnam G2G6 Mach 2 (27.0k points)
retagged by Ellen Smith
Have you tried the admixture options at Gedmatch? The blog Who Are You Made Of recommends the MDLP World 22 calculator for Native American ancestry. https://whoareyoumadeof.com/blog/which-gedmatch-admixture-to-use/

When you do run the Admixture query on GEDMatch, you can also select the "Admixture Proportions by Chromosome" option to see exactly where your Native American DNA falls. It may also be a bit more accurate.  I show very little (if any) Native American DNA otherwise, but do show as much as 11% on individual Chromosomes on some of the tests. I do agree that MLDP World 22 is probably the best test, but it's not the only test. Some of the others to consider are:

MDLP Project   MDLP K11 Modern   Clovis_Amerindian
MDLP Project   MDLP K11 Modern   Kennewick_Amerindian
MDLP Project   MDLP K11 Modern   Botocudo_Amerindian
MDLP Project   MDLP World-22   Arctic-Amerind
MDLP Project   MDLP World-22   South-America_Amerind
MDLP Project   MDLP World-22   North-Amerind
Eurogenes   Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15   North_Amerindian
Eurogenes   Eurogenes K13   North_Amerindian
Yes thank you.
I have not done a ged match only ancestry and I found a Dawes registry for my grandma so if you can get benefits that what u need

I have 5 different ancestors who claimed or were claimed to be Cherokee, and 1 who is claimed to have been Cheraw (all of them on my maternal grandmother's side).  If all of the stories were true, I would have up to 6% Native American DNA.  On GEDmatch, I show as high as 1.86% Native American but I've read that MDLP World 22 is the best GEDmatch option for Native American ancestry, and mine shows me .97 or .98% Mesoamerican.  My GEDcom is G131070.  I am currently trying to determine whether my alleged Cheraw ancestor (a fifth great-grandmother) was really Cheraw.  I have met with brick walls for all of my allegedly Cherokee ancestors, though absence of evidence does not necessarily mean that none of these family stories are true; however, DNA percentage indicates that at least some of them were probably stories told in order to hide Black ancestry.  If anyone looks me up and finds a match, please let me know!

Susannah,

See my note from Jan 25th and try that.  I'm showing that you appear to have a trace of Native American, but not on every chromosome. Also please remember that as time goes by, DNA proportions get smaller so that anything you may have inherited from a 5th Great-grandmother is so small that it may be undetectable/untraceable (%-wise). Anything beyond a 3rd cousin or about 5 generations may not even show as a match. So the best thing for you to do is follow that paper trail as best you can because DNA (auDNA) may not have the answers you're looking for.

On the other hand, IF you can trace your linage from your mother, back to her mother, etc. until you reach that Native American 5th great grand-mother (you are a direct descendant), you may want to consider a Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) test from FtDNA. This will give you your mtDNA haplogroup which could indicate Native American ancestry.

Hope this helps,

Ken

The Cheraw ceased to exist as a distinct tribe before the Revolutionary War.  Any remaining Cheraw who survived the wars and epidemics were absorbed into other remnant tribes such as the Saponi and the Catawba.  There are no records of Cheraw people by name other than an occasional head man or interpreter mentioned in English records in the 1700's. There is no Cheraw project.  The following pages might help you search for a Cherokee connection:  

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Finding_a_Cherokee_Ancestor

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Cherokee_Sources/Resources

The Catawba are a federally-recognized tribe and there are records back to the middle of the 19th century.  There were only about 100 Catawba remaining in the early 1800's and they briefly joined the Cherokee in the 1830's  but most returned to their own reservation by 1841. There is a Catawba census from 1849, I don't know if it's digitized anywhere.
There are groups of people in North Carolina who claim to be Saponi or Cheraw, but they are undocumented.
Thanks for your reply, Ken!  I did as you suggested and I found that my biggest percentage is 6.4% or 6.2% Amerind on my 14th chromosome (on MDLP and Eurogenes), although there are only 5 chromosomes with no hits at all for Native American DNA.  I used all of the projects you suggested, except I am not seeing the other 3 ( the Clovis, Kennewick, and Botocudo Amerind tests).  I thought they might be in archaic DNA (since I know about Kennewick Man and Clovis points), but that's not where they are, either.  Can you point me towards them?

Unfortunately, my alleged Native American ancestors all go through a male ancestor somewhere between my ancestor and my grandmother.  The closest is my maternal grandmother's father's mother.  I was able to trace her parents and they were born circa 1818/1824, but I lose the paper trail; there is nothing prior to 1860 except for tax lists.  I cannot find his parents and I cannot even determine what her real first name was (she is shown as Delhis and Delie, on census records).  But, there is my great-grandfather in between, to interrupt the mtDNA line.  

Looking at my individual chromosomes is a great idea.  I've wondered about statistical noise sometimes, and whether my percentage is too small to be meaningful.  But I think that there is way too much on way too many chromosomes for this to just be statistical noise.  One of these ancestors who claimed to be Native American, or maybe even more than one, really had to be.  I'll keep tracing the paper trail and hopefully, this time I might actually find proof.  Proof in either direction is meaningful.  If it turns out that this ancestor I'm researching was actually just someone who lived in the Cheraw Judiciary District of South Carolina, and someone got mixed up and thought that this meant that she was Cheraw, then at least I'll have learned about another ancestor.
Thanks for your reply, Katie!  I've been reading up on Cheraw.  The note that I found on Geni was not sourced, so I have to figure out what it really means.  It says that her ethnicity is, "Old Cheraw indenture to Trader Benjamin Harris Direct."  Several of those words could mean a couple of different things.  I have tracked down Benjamin Harris (he was the uncle of her daughter-in-law, and they lived in the same county, so this is probably the correct Benjamin Harris), and now I am trying to track down the indenture document, so that I can hopefully find her maiden name (or at least her last name at the time of her indenture), since that is undocumented and I have seen it as Williams, Roark, and several others (this confusion would make sense, if she was a widow when she married my 5th great-grandfather, William Jenkins).  If I can find such things as a marriage record or a record of her indenture, then I will have a better lead.  I think that, in this context, "Indenture," means an indentured servant, and not a property transaction, which could also be called an indenture in that time and place.

There is a tree on Geni which provides few, if any, sources, showing her ancestors for several generations as Nottoway Cheraw leaders dating back to the 1630s, so these are people who would have been documented by colonists (if it's true).  I have to make sure that she truly is the daughter of the parents shown in that tree, and continue to do the same for each generation, once I verify what her maiden name actually was.  

Maybe she's Cheraw, and maybe her indenture was registered in the Cheraw judiciary district of South Carolina (which existed before she was born and ceased to exist when she was about 15, old enough for her to have been indentured; and I know from census records that she was born in South Carolina).  Or, both could be true (after all, the place was named Cheraw for a reason).  

There were only 50-60 Cheraw left a decade before her birth, so there are very few people who could have been her parents if she was Cheraw.  Some joined the Catabwa, others joined the Cherokee, others joined the Lumbee.  As of 2012, there is now a recognized Sumter Tribe of Cheraw.  Cheraw genealogy is happening, and for some reason, it is happening on Geni (I tried Geni many years ago and Wikitree is clearly a better place to do genealogy, so I have no idea why this is happening on Geni).  I'm trying to make contact and hopefully get ahold of some sources through Geni and through the Sumter Tribe of Cheraw.  

I'll check out the links that you provided.  I have 5 other ancestors who claimed to be Cherokee (or whose descendants claimed them to be Cherokee), so I know all about how impossible it is to prove this when it's too far back in the past, before the Cherokee started keeping records.  I don't know which Native American ancestor, if any, I will ever be able to document a paper trail from.  I know that I'm not nearly Native American enough to join a tribe or anything.  I've been told since I was a little girl that I'm part Native American.  My grandmother's father told her that his mother was Cherokee (I suspect she was 1/2 or 1/4 Cherokee, but cannot prove it due to a brick wall; her parents were alive during the time of the Trail of Tears and they show up out of thin air as a family with children in 1860, and all of them except for 2 died before the 1880 census; my great-grandmother died in the 1880s, leaving four sons and one brother who survived).  All the others are much further back in time.  Even if most of these stories are false, it doesn't mean that none of them are true.  

The main goal for me is just to follow up on this lead and to follow it wherever it takes me.  Maybe she was a poor teenage daughter of South Carolina colonists who died and left her destitute, or maybe they had debts and she was indentured to pay them; maybe she was indentured because a lot of Native Americans were enslaved or indentured.  "More research is needed."  I'm not committed to a certain outcome.  I hope to find proof that she is Cheraw, but if I find proof that she was the descendent of colonists, then it's not like I have any shortage of other possibly Native American ancestors.  I will keep banging on those brick walls as well.

Susannah,

The Native American groups shown are lumped together under "Amerindian" for the MDLP K11 Modern test. The description found under the K16 test says "Amerindian - a component, which is modal (i.e has a peak) in various native American groups of North and South America, as well as in ancient DNA of Native Americans (Clovis, Kennewick man, etc). 

I've been told that anything over 5% on the individual chromosomes is probably legitimate, and anything less than that could be noise, but I'm not an expert by any means.

Hope this helps,

Ken

Thanks Ken, that makes sense!  I've been having trouble finding the project descriptions.  None of my other results on individual chromosomes are above 4.7%, but that one on the 14th chromosome is probably legitimate.  That leads me to believe that at least one of my family stories of Native American ancestry is probably true, even if the Native American ancestor was several generations further back than I was lead to believe by my family history.
I match you on GEDmatch with 65 matches. My GED number is BJ5454014. I was told that my greatgrandmother, Mattie Pritchett, was part NA.

I have Native American DNA in both my mtDNA and auDNA. My mtDNA is D1m by FamilyTreeDNA. Per communications with Claudio Bravi, D1m is fairly rare and he believes it is from the area north-east of Mexico City.

My auDNA shows about 1/16th Native American per 23andMe, ancestry.com and FTDNA. All of the Native American ancestry is from my maternal grandmother whose name and origin are unknown. I ran the MDLP World-22 Oracle for my GEDmatch number T539475, and there are 3 significant results.

The first results are Population. I have 4.67% Mesoamerica, 1.92% North-Amerind and 0.40% South-America_Amerind. The second results are % per chromosome for these 3 populations plus Arctic-Amerind. I have 29.4% on chr 11, 21.2% on chr 2, 14.4% on chr 12, 9.6% on chr 8, 9.2% on chr 1, 9.0% on chr 17, and lessor amounts on the other chromosomes.

The 3rd result takes the above information and determines how well it fits into the individual populations, and then orders the populations by “distance”. Naturally the list starts with all the individual European populations. The interesting variant is their Mixed Mode Population; this is the best fit for a pair of populations. Number 1 on the list is 91.6% Austrian and 8.4% Cucupa. For the top 20 the allocation to the Native American tribe ranges from 7.0% to 16.9%. The predominate tribes are Cucapa, Cochimi, Kumiai, Miwok and Serrano. These tribes range from mid Baja California up to San Francisco, across into Arizona, and down to the upper north west of the Mexican state of Sonora.

Very interesting..I am a descendent of Chief Taptico of the Wicocomico tribe, but I believe I am part Cherokee as well. We have 131 shared DNA matched on GEDmatch. My GED number is BJ5454014. Interesting enough, one of our shared matches is Ann Harris. My grandfather's name was Woodrow Harris; he grew up on a reservation in Oklahoma.
HZ5983285 here’s my gedmatch I’m Lumbee , croatoan and eastern band Cherokee
Thank you. I will compare it to mine using match 1 or 2 diagnostic.
It is very interesting. We have 79 shared matches to both my Ashkenazi relatives and my Scotch-Irish, Native American ones. Are you perhaps related to any relatives with the last name Harris, Evans, Solomon, Cone, Hendrix, or Ruderman?
Cheraw on my paternal side and not sure on my maternal side but 23nMe shows a small NA percentage

FV6211576 , GD8385123

I - S25451 (Y-DNA)
Good day, Mr. Pounds. We have 56 shared DNA matches under the FV number. I will take a look at them when I have a break.
Hi Jennifer, we have an 8.2 match on chm 19 . Annise Wolf Middleton was the daughter of William Harris Middleton Son of Sally Harris. Not sure where the Wolfs came in but seem to recall they were neighbors at some point. Wm Harris Middleton was my 3xGreatgrandfather and the Cherokee was through his wife Nancy Eddings daughter of Frances Weaver.
To Ms. Holston: Oh..very interesting.  I will check those names. My maiden name is Harris. My husband is a Wolff. I did notice Middleton's in my family tree in the past. Please let me know your GED number.
William Harris Middleton is my ninth cousin.
On the FV6211576 our highest is a 9.8. My number is DS4337340.
Good day. The DS GED match number has 78 shared matches, including the top match for me JE RC, who is related to the Romanovs of Russia. We also have the shared match, Brett Harris, which is interesting as my maiden name is Jennifer Harris.

Hi Robot! I came across this post while searching on google and seems like we actually share DNA on your GD838 GED number. Im kit RF545122C1. Id love to know how we are related.

Good day Madison,  My name is Jennifer Harris Wolff. We share two segments, maximum segment length 4.1 cm. I am part Powhatan and Wicocomico.
My GEDmatch number is BJ5454014. Have a nice weekend.
Hi Jennifer, do you have a family tree on somewhere like Ancestry I can take a look at? Thanks
I am on ancestry as Jennifer Harris, but do not have a paid account there at this time. I do have trees and paid accounts as Jennifer Wolff on My Heritage, Family Tree DNA, and GEDmatch Tier 1. Please let me know if you can find me..
I'm having trouble finding you. Are you able to provide a link to one of your trees? I find it curious I also match with Vanessa as well. I have no clue how we are all related. I know my family on my dads side is native far back. He and I are black and his mother passed down to us a high amount of native DNA in our results. We just aren't sure exactly where its from at all due to notorious brick walls with black research past 1870. It's possible I am related to you both through my dad's father but I am not sure.
I hope you are doing well, new-found cousin. I am working this morning, but will write back in the afternoon.
Hi

Ancestry no longer dose test for native Americans. I have a very interesting dna type I am connected to my 1700 & 1800 Native American blood line which means my 3 grandfather the crow line was a Native American I’m there I’m also connected to a freedman natives Cherokee line there are brick walls in place because family members were enslave.
Good day, Madison. I would need an email in order to share my tree. Perhaps, we could PM through Facebook. I am Josh Wolff on Facebook.
Good day, Sarah. I am related to an L B Carr, who is part Native American. My GEDmatch number is BJ5454014. I am a descendant of Wicocomico and Powhatan ancestors.
Hi Sarah do you have a GEDMatch kit I can run my kit against? I wonder if we could be related through your freedman line  My kit is RF545122C1
Good day, Madison. I also have Friedmans (Freedmans) on my tree. I compared our kits; we share two segments on chromosome 17 and 19, 4.1 and 4 respectively.

                  Jennifer Harris Wolff
Hi Jennifer email me at _ so we can exchange facebooks to PM. Thanks
For privacy reasons please remove your email from your message.  You can send a private message to any member by clicking on their name and then from their profile “Send private message”
Ah thank you so much Kathie. My bad! I very rarely use this site

I am sorry to have such belated replies!  Hope it's OK to put them all together like this.  My GEDmatch is G131070.

Jennifer Wolff, I just looked and saw a 6.1 cM match for us on Chromosome 16 and 10.7 cM on the X chromosome.  Connection Finder did not find a connection between us (yet), which doesn't surprise me because I have not yet been able to document any Native American ancestry.  It is possible that I have Powhatan ancestry, but no family story was passed down, however I do have ancestors that were in Jamestown as early as 1616, and I have Green ancestors who I have been unable to trace (I recently learned that it's an extremely common Powhatan surname, though of course the Green surname could be from anywhere).  I noticed that later in this thread, you said that you have Ashkenazi heritage.  So do I, probably on my father's side.  I have Ashkenazi DNA and a garnet Star of David was passed down from my great-aunt to my sister.  her mother was a Fuchs and, because that was often a German Jewish surname, we think that is probably the branch of our family with Ashkenazi ancestry.  I also have Harris ancestors, so that may be how we are connected.

Fred Mulholland, we are cousins!  Wikitree found 243 common ancestors between us.  https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Special:Relationship&action=calculate&person1Name=Porter-1167&person2Name=Rolfes-67  

I see we have a 6.5 cM match on Chromosome 15.  I got my DNA test through Genes for Good so I only have admixture results from GEDmatch and ADNTRO.  My % varies from admixture to admixture but I definitely do match with a lot of people with Eastern Woodlands Native American ancestry, and I also get small hits for Mesoamerican and Arctic.  

If you could look through the list and let me know if any of our shared ancestors that Wikitree found are from a known Native American branch of your family tree, that would be much appreciated!  I know from admixtures that my family story of Native American heritage is true, I just have not been able to prove it.  I also have DNA from just about every continent (Europe, S. Asia which is probably Romani, Africa, E. Asia which I have no idea about, and the Americas), and I only can document the European heritage so far, very interested in learning more about the 1/3 of my DNA that isn't European (or anything more about the European heritage, too, it's just that things have been very unbalanced in favor of me learning about ancestors who are either European or are assumed to have been European until proven otherwise).

Vanessa Blevins We share 6.1 cM on Chromosome 2, 6.3 on Chromosome 4, 15.3 on Chromosome 15. Unfortunately, Wikitree cannot find a connection between us.  I would be very interested in figuring out how we're related!  It must be fairly close; when I lowered the threshold to 3 we ended up with 2 more matches, totalling 36.0 cM, we could be as close as 2nd cousins once removed...or as far as sharing an 8th great-grandparent...but it's a good match!  Maybe we can figure out how we're related.  

Robert Pounds With your two kits, I found 11 matches on one, 15 on the other, total 49.3cM on one and 59 cM on the other, it looks like a good match!  Wikitree cannot find a connection, so it must be that we share ancestry that is hiding behind a brick wall, for one or both of us.  I would love to figure out how we are connected!

Rebecca Walker You and I have 78.3cM across 20 segments on 17 chromosomes, plus 10.6 cM shared on our X chromosome.  WOW.  That's 88.9 cM total, the best match I have ever seen!   We are both descended from Mary Addie (Addie-3), she is out 10th great-grandmother.  But we may be related much more closely, too.  We are more likely to be related somewhere around 2nd cousin once removed, to third cousin twice removed.  But assuming that we're related in at least 2 ways, it probably would not be that close.  I would expect us to be at least 2 generations more closely related than what I've found so far, though that might be our only blood connection.

Madison Davenport  We share 24.2cM across 7 segments.  Wikitree hasn't found a connection between us, but, I know the name Davenport; my grandmother's half-sister's maiden name is Davenport.  I don't know of any Davenport blood relations, but, do you have family from Casey County, Kentucky?  Rossville or Vermillion County, Illinois?  Franklin, Tennessee?  We might be able to figure out how we're connected.

As a resident DNA dweeb and one who somehow became a cautionary voice for genetic genealogy, I believe that dropping the default GEDmatch setting of a 7cM minimum segment size threshold (and if using the free one-to-one tool, leaving the default "SNP window size" and "mismatch bunching limit" even at 7cM) will return data that has a good likelihood of being false-positive.

You can browse some of my other posts on G2G if you're having a really hard time falling asleep, but if you aren't working (all tests involved) with traditionally phased data, some research has indicated that 7cM segments will be false-positive 58% of the time, 6cM 74% of the time, and 5cM 86% of the time. And Dr. Blaine Bettinger has pointed out that sharing multiple small segments doesn't improve the likelihood than any of them are valid: each segment is an independent event. Likewise, even triangulation using only small segments doesn't increase the probability that a small segment is valid.

GEDmatch uses no types of qualitative refinement to their matching, like computational phasing or genotype imputation. All the other testing companies do. Some informal research at GEDmatch utilizing superkits extracted from whole genome sequencing further leads me to believe even a segment size as large as 10cM is likely to be a false-positive. With default settings for comparison, the accuracy of valid to false-positive at GEDmatch seems to break toward the positive at somewhere between 14cM and 19cM.

I'd seriously discourage anyone from going below the GEDmatch 7cM default for comparisons, and I'd personally keep it over 10cM if the goal is a fair degree of accuracy. You might also save yourself some investigation time by checking to see if a matching segment overlaps a chromosomal region that's known to present problems for genealogy. It may look too detailed at first glance, but I put together a short document describing some of these.

Just feel you are throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Ok 53 % chance false is 47% chance true.  Especially if known relatives on this line also match and some may match higher. When you go back to 8th and 9th cousins you are unlikely to find large matches. The snips matter too, a small match with a high snip count is more likely to be a good match.
Thank you for your input, but I have found it to be very helpful, even sometimes with the 3 cm setting. I use it as one of many tools. It has been especially helpful with my Wicocomico heritage. Genealogy research in my experience benefits most from a several prong approach: DNA results and matches on sites like My Heritage and Family Tree DNA, GEDmatch both free and Tier 1 tools which allow triangulation, family stories, contacting long known as well as new-found cousins, contacts on Facebook sites like Powhatan descendants sites, and written flow charts and trees. So, overall I disagree. It is another piece in the puzzle.
Yes, Sherry, that has been my experience..I cannot speak for everyone's experience, but I do believe it can be helpful.

Sherry, for many biological and mathematical reasons, with autosomal DNA you are quite unlikely to find verifiable matches beyond the level of 5th cousins. Here's another chart to glance at. And the work by Dr. Tim Janzen in looking at trio-phased individuals found that a 7cM segment was false-positive 58% of the time, not 53%. If almost 6 in 10 reported matches are false, is it throwing out the baby with the bathwater, or simply taking reasonable steps to make certain that the baby in the bathwater is our own? Down at 5cM, almost 9 out 10 of the babies will be someone else's. I know; world's absolute worst counter-analogy. frown

In my comparisons using a 2.08-million SNP superkit at GEDmatch along with 11 of our common microarray test results of the same DNA, the worst performing common test--one of the current ones--showed, with default settings and a threshold of greater than or equal to 10cM, 2.1 matches for every one displayed as matching the far more extensive superkit. This is by no means conclusive, but it implies that, with more unique SNPs tested for comparison, even at 10cM more results at GEDmatch could be false-positive than not, that small segments have been conflated as being one continuous range of half-identical nucleotides when, in fact, the reported segment is broken somewhere by a mismatch because our typical autosomal DNA tests look only at about 0.02% of our DNA...and any two tests might be examining as few as 17% of the same SNPs.

The SNP count does definitely matter...but it's the SNP density, not the total number, as well as which SNPs and where they're located. Too, GEDmatch recently lowered their default "SNP window size threshold" yet again. Prior to GEDmatch Genesis the minimum was 700 SNPs; with Genesis going into production, that became a dynamic range between 200 and 400; now it's "about 2/3 of segments will have between 185 and 214 SNPs." I consider the original 700 reasonable, but the modifications were made because, with the introduction of the Illumina GSA chipset, we began having a range of different microarray tests that overlap on only a minority of the same SNPs. In order to keep reported match numbers up, GEDmatch decreased the SNP density requirements.

With a very broad brush, 1cM will be approximate, with a lot of flexibility based upon chromosomal location, to about 1 million base pairs. At that relative density, there should be just over 200 SNPs per centiMorgan. Anything much lower than that means fewer SNPs have been examined in a comparison between two tests than the approximate physical average tested across the genome. Caution should be applied. If you see, for example, a 7cM segment reporting 300 matching SNPs when the genomic average should be closer to 1,400, there may be a problem.

Our microarray tests look only at about one marker in every 4,800 base pairs of nucleotides, on average. That relative SNP density is an element that can provide us a bit of confidence that we're doing enough apples-to-apples matching for the outcome to be meaningful. If there's a relatively long stretch in the raw data where SNPs are simply assumed to match but were not tested, that can lead to mistakes. At the bottom of the GEDmatch free one-to-one autosomal comparison tool is a little checkbox to "prevent hard breaks." I recommend that be kept unchecked. The distance allowed between matching SNPs of up a half million base pairs is excessive.

Jennifer, DNA is absolutely just another piece in the puzzle. That's something a lot of people forget because it looks all "sciencey." But it's a form of evidence to be evaluated and weighted just like any other. It seldom gives us a binary yes-or-no result. Other than for twins, parents, and full siblings, the data has to be rigorously analyzed. But--and there's a catch--it's unlike any traditional form of genealogical evidence we have ever used and it requires a different skillset to analyze. I've written over 1.4 million words (literally) of stuff here on G2G over the past six years, 95% of it about DNA. You can browse some of that and decide if I have any idea whereof I speak.

As a mini-experiment, if I use the GEDmatch free one-to-one tool at the default settings and compare your kit against my WGS superkit, predictably I get, "No shared DNA segments found." If I leave it at 7cM but drop the SNP window down to 100, I still get no shared DNA. At 5cM, no shared DNA.

But if I use my 23andMe v5 test kit, which has few in-common tested SNPs with your AncestryDNA results, and leave the centiMorgan threshold at 7cM but move the SNP window to 100, we end up showing 15.2cM shared over two segments. If I then move it to 5cM and leave the 100 SNP window, we show 36.7cM total across six segments. Dropping it all the way down to 3cM and we come in with a whopping 106.5cM across 25 segments. Every one of those comparisons is a false-positive.

GEDmatch gives us a granular level of control over most of their tools, but that doesn't mean it isn't simple for us to make the results into a fabrication. Our goal should be to employ the most objective and realistic data we can find, and then to analyze it closely. Trying to make the data fit a desired outcome is the very opposite of the scientific method. Or of the Genealogical Proof Standard, for that matter.

I didn't mention it in my first post, but extending the examples, there is an issue with the kind of test Susannah took that makes her matching results at GEDmatch more difficult to interpret. Genes for Good use a microarray unlike any of the companies doing genealogy testing. Their principal interest is medicine and pharmacology, so while they test more SNPs than any other of our standard companies (almost 744,000), only about 250,000 of them are not exonic markers...meaning that all but those 250K are related to protein coding genes or their flanking or control regions. Other than genes that involve phenotype, like hair and eye color, the rest of those are going to be 99.9%+ identical among all humans. We all have the same neural, cardiovascular, and musculoskeletal systems, for example.

By contrast, even though from around 10% to 18% of the SNPs our genealogy tests look at are exonic markers, that still leaves us on average with about 500,000 SNPs to compare that have more relevance to population genetics. Having half as many meaningful markers in the Genes for Good data definitely, at least at GEDmatch, leads to an increased possibility of false-positives. If I run my 23andMe v5 kit against Susannah's kit at the 3cM, 100 SNP window, prevent hard breaks settings, the result is a humorous 238.8cM over 56 shared segments. If that total amount were over a dozen or fewer segments, that would make us 2nd cousins.

About 10 days ago here on G2G I provided a summary of some the steps I go through to evaluate the validity of small segments. It isn't that they're de facto always false. But they're sorta like the FTX crypto-currency guy trying to sell you an expensive investment that he guarantees will increase over 10-fold by next Monday: approach with skepticism. Again, just like in lab research, the primary objective is to attempt to disprove the hypothesis, not prove it. The real battle is to always avoid confirmation bias.

If I downloaded my ancestry dna it will show the Cherokee
DNA tests cannot connect you to a specific tribe, only to people.

Kathie is absolutely correct. The peopling of the Americas began with a (relatively speaking) small population of individuals with a very similar genetic background. And there continued to be little contact with other kinds of continental/subcontinental populations for thousands of years. If we ignore admixture that continued to occur among geographically proximal peoples (e.g., Plains Nations members taking spouses from other Plains tribes), over time certain genetic differentiations would likely have developed. But our inexpensive microarray tests aren't extensive or specific enough to make those distinctions.

If you see a test or an analysis of test data that purports to do so, be skeptical and research the reputation of that company. It won't be one of the major ones we currently use for genealogy, and it won't be one run by a respected academic institution.

Even the GWAS (genome-wide association studies) we see on the subject of Native Americans have only attempted to make fairly broad geographical distinctions, not tribal ones. In the U.S. alone, there are over 570 tribal nations that are recognized by federal law, and more than 60 additional that are recognized by individual states. The nations determine the requirements and criteria for citizenship in a tribe, and DNA evidence is not used by any tribal nation I'm aware of. Partly for that reason, the NA peoples have a lower participation rate in DNA testing than the general U.S. population which, in turn, means we have less reference data for them overall.

There are also other factors that make DNA testing unattractive for some Native Americans. As one example, the Eastern Shoshone in Wyoming require that you be at least one-quarter Native in order to be a tribal member. That could mean loss of some federal and other benefits if descendants are no longer tribal citizens. Yet 2010 U.S. census data indicate that more than half of NA people don't marry other Natives, a rate significantly higher than any other census group in the country.

That intermarriage admixture has also had long-term effects on the autosomal DNA of the founding population. The biology of meiosis means that amounts of a specific haplotypic DNA decrease much faster in an admixed population than does the so-named "blood quantum." We very seldom pass down our entire genome; pieces of it almost always end with us. We can (roughly) estimate how much of our autosomal DNA is passed down to the next generation based upon the number of children we have: 1-(0.5n) where n is the total number of children. That assumes the children are siblings, not identical twins, and that the average amount of autosomal DNA shared between siblings is 50%, which might even be slightly on the high side. Mercedes Brons notes that full siblings generally share 33% to 50% of their DNA; the way 23andMe reports the calculation, they show that the sibling sharing range is 38% to 61% (their numbers include xDNA). The result is that you'll need to have 7 children, on average, to pass along 99% of your DNA. Two children, and about 25% of it is not passed down; 3 children, about 12.5% won't be inherited by anyone. That's the principal mechanism at work when we see estimations like those from U.C. Davis population geneticist Graham Coop that indicate, by our 10g-grandparents, there's only a 20% chance than any given one of them contributed any DNA to us at all, the chance is about 40% at the level of 8g-grandparents. Our genetic ancestry is always going to be different than our genealogical ancestry and, as we go back in time, we have far fewer genetic ancestors than a tidy family tree chart would imply.

The uniparental DNA, yDNA and mtDNA, can't be used for the purpose of tribal differentiation because, since they don't undergo recombination, the genetic history can't discern individual tribal haplotypes: an unbroken mtDNA line could be indistinguishable whether from the Tlingit in the Pacific Northwest or the Awa-Kwaiker in Ecuador.

This is why Ancestry writes that it, "...does not break down DNA results by tribe, but we do provide an approximate geographical region (Indigenous Americas).... To provide a tribal level of identification, Ancestry would need much more genetic information from these communities. But for reasons relating to tribal sovereignty, it also might not be ideal to break ethnicity down by tribe."

Some other good resources are:

Sarah, I am related to an L B Carr. I was wondering if that name sounds familiar. I also am related to many other Carrs as evidenced by matches on My Heritage, Familytree DNA, and GEDmatch. I am able to trace my roots back to the Powhatan and Wicocomico tribes. I also have many Cherokee cousins, perhaps you are also one, including nonliving cousins who are on the Dawes Rolls. Perhaps when you mentioned that Ancestry showed your NA heritage, that is what you were referring to, and you already knew you were Cherokee from other sources. I would like to personal message you if you don't mind.
For all of those responding to this thread it would be most helpful if you would build out your family trees here on Wikitree.  There are many tools here that can help you determine relationships and to see which DNA test takers are related to someone.  A well-documented tree is the only way to determine whether a potential DNA match is actually the relative you believe him or her to be.
Exactly! Without a good, well sourced tree, it's nearly impossible to figure out how you relate to a particular individual.  Even at only the 3rd cousin level, you have 16 potential family trees (paths) that could be a possibility. Most of you are talking 3cM to 7cM matches so you are talking probably 512 to 1024 possible paths to your ethnicity inheritance (straight math).  So the better your tree is, the better your ethnicity can be verified).

Start with you and your immediate family, then work back another generation, then another, and then another, etc. DNA can then be used to triangulate with other descendants to "prove" likely descent from one ancestral couple or individual.  Doing it the other way around can be extremely difficult, if not impossible.
Hello! We match at Total Half-Match segments (HIR) 11.4cM (0.319 Pct)

3 shared segments found for this comparison.
I am a Carr. Please tell me more of the NA connection. :)

Monica
I am related to an LB Carr. I descend down through several native American lines, including Croshaw, Petty, Blackwell, and Tapp. Are you on any DNA websites?

8 Answers

+5 votes

Hello Joseph.

Out of curiosity I checked our ged# -mine is WA594280C1. One testing site showed me as having a tiny bit of NA dna, not enough to show the tribe. However, I do have 6gg who were NA, from the Mohawk tribe. I have 7.6 cM and MRCA of 7.4.

by Lillian Pauley G2G4 (4.2k points)
Thank you
I do not think we share NA but we do both share more than a few royal and noble ancestors.
Curious on who they are.....
Edward Bulkeley seems to be our nearest listed common ancestor.
I match you at 6.5 MRCA. I definitely have Cherokee, and discovering Shawnee currently.
Where listed as 11th cousins via Hudson and Bowman lines.
My GEDnumber is BJ5454014. I match you with 83 shared matches. My name is Jennifer Harris Wolff. I notice a shared match: Arnold Harris. I believe I am part Cherokee. I am definitely Wicocomico.
I believe I am also Cherokee. My name is Jennifer Harris Wolff. My GED number is BJ5454014.
Hi Jennifer.

We share 6cm and 3 mutual cousins on gedmatch.

Monica
+5 votes
I do not have a Ged match or gedcome account but have a small amount of American Indian DNA.  I received a match on ancestry with a William Patrick Crazythunder Jr. He lives on a Reservation in northern US.
by Anonymous Private G2G4 (4.8k points)
+4 votes
Gedmatch has in its free tools a link to Ancestor Projects. Check it out. You'll find one that fits your criteria that lets you compare people who have joined the specific project.
by Renae Rogers G2G2 (2.7k points)
+4 votes
My great grandmother was supposed to be Cherokee.  I have no evidence to support that.  I have small % in dna, like 0.5%.  My gedmatch is in my profile.
by Michelle Hunt G2G Crew (940 points)

If your great-grandmother was Cherokee she (or her parents) should be pretty easy to find in Cherokee records.  Here are some Wikitree pages you might find helpful:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Native_Americans:_Cherokee

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Finding_a_Cherokee_Ancestor

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Cherokee_Sources/Resources

Thank you!
+8 votes
Would be fun to start an Amerind and part Amerind group in Gedmatch Ancestor Projects if there is not one already. Shared dna ancestry does not give tribe membership but DNA does not lie if your DNA cousins are full blood Cherokee you are at least part Cherokee. Also fun to play around with DNA by chromesome in Admixture (heritage). Think it only takes 50 lots to start a project. I am small part GR4297284 and my brother RY9225703.
by Sherry Holston G2G6 Mach 2 (22.8k points)
Interesting, you and I have a 101 GED DNA matches. I will look them over.
Sounds like a good idea.
Someone called Ashley Laughter is one of our common matches. She is also one of My Heritage DNA matches.
+3 votes

I'm Crow and my kit is on GedMatch:  LQ4656777

by Kirby Drake G2G6 Mach 2 (24.0k points)
I have 62 matches, but interestingly enough it is more with my Russian/Ashkenazi relatives, such as Elena Smirnitskaia.
We match on 3 segments, the largest being 10.3cM (set at 7). My kit # is ED5672752
Oh, interesting. I will check our common matches. Thank you.
Please let me know what tribe you are linked to: also Crow? I am linked to Wicocomico, Powhatan, and Cherokee. My GED number is BJ5454014.

Hi Jennifer, I don't find any shared segments for us.  

The Crow language is a Siouan language1, making the assumption that all the Siouan speaking tribes broke off from a similar branch and formed local dialects, the following tribes would be possibly interrelated2:  Crow, Assiniboine, Hidatsa, Mandan, Lakota, Omaha-Poica, Dakota, Winnebago, Chwere, Kansa, Osage, Quapaw, Ofo, Tutelo Saponi, Catawba, Woccon, Biloxi, and Stoney (Canada).  The Crow specifically are documented to have split off from the Awatixa Hidata, "Ashalaho ('Many Lodges', today called Mountain Crow), Awaxaawaxammilaxpáake ('Mountain People'), or Ashkúale ('The Center Camp'). The Ashalaho or Mountain Crow, the largest Crow group, split from the Awatixa Hidatsa and were the first to travel west. (McCleary 1997: 2–3)., (Bowers 1992: 21) Their leader No Intestines had received a vision and led his band on a long migratory search for sacred tobacco, finally settling in southeastern Montana. They lived in the Rocky Mountains and foothills along the Upper Yellowstone River, on the present-day Wyoming-Montana border, in the Big Horn and Absaroka Range (also Absalaga Mountains); the Black Hills comprised the eastern edge of their territory."3

1. Crow language - Wikipedia

2. Siouan languages - Wikipedia

3. Crow people - Wikipedia

When I compared our GEDmatch numbers, we had 61 shared matches, including Elena Smirnitskaia, 31.4 shared cm for me, and 26.1 shared cm ro you. My grandfather father Paul Harris was Scotch-Irish, Native American, and Ashkenazi Jewish from Belaurs.
Our closest shared match is Vlad Nev, 31.8 with me, 19.6 with you.
Hi Kirby, I have mtdna matches with both Crow and Osage, so I ran your kit LQ4656777. I have about 10 family kits, and we had matches of 7,8 and 11 to your kit. So I went to your one to many....we match the top kits in your list from 7 to 15 cms.  I'll keep working to see who we share. Mary T558342
Hi Mary,

Were you able to find anything?  Let me know if you need any help! :)
+5 votes
I have very Early African ancestry with NativeAmerican ancestry. With Gedmatch, I’m related to the Echota Cherokees, Montauk, and some Taino so possibly Seminole, so far. I matched you Joseph 25/3. I am ZK6526531.
by JB Y G2G3 (3.3k points)
We have 57 shared matches, including Erica Christiensen, Gina Richardson, Valeria Telepinsky, and Orville Nelson. Do you have some Cherokee surnames I could compare?
Hello JB. I match you at 5.4cm. I am also AA with Echota and Seminole ancestry. We share several matches. Would love to talk further.

Monica
My father was adopted. He was very white looking, he is deceased, and I discovered an African line through the “Goings” family. 3 were transported to the Jamestown Colony in the year 1619 from a country called Ndongo, within present day Angola. The original surname was Portuguese “Gonwelão”. It was anglicized to Goins. Many east coast tribes including Cherokee, Creek, Choctaw, Lumbee, and more have Goings or Goins ancestors. Even though they arrived mixed race-I think there connection to the Sephardim and Portuguese genes is through a converso explorer called Diogo Gomes a.k.a. Dias. He had no European children, so, genetic lines cannot be traced. In the Virginia Colony,  Because they were mixed or mulatto, they were not to marry Caucasian women. It was however, okay to marry the native women. I found a document on rootsweb that related to tithing. 3 Goings brothers were home and the church had stopped by to assess property for the tithe. The assessor had inquired about the wives ancestry, to which all 3 brothers remained silent. If they said they were native, they would have had to pay a tithe as then the wives would be considered chattel. One wife was Choctaw, and my line, I believe this is Lucinda Blackwell who married Henry Goings,and is possibly Creek Mvskoke. I can’t remember the ancestry of the third wife. The original African ancestor was Diogo Gonwelão and wife and child, and lore has him going to Bayern, Germany. I have no idea if he was free or a servant. His young son, Joao Gonwelão, had to say behind. He worked his way out of his indenture and became a free man 7-10 years later. His indenture holder was a man named Evans, I believe.
Good day, Monica. Otis Walter Albert is my 11th cousin. We both appear to descend from Mary Frances Sloman, myself through her marriage with Francis Poythress whose sister married Thomas Rolfe, son of Pocahontas.
So, interesting. I descend through the Goins (Gaines) line as well as through the Blackwell line.
+2 votes
Hi there, I ran my numbers against yours and we share four different segments. My kit number is fq8026450.

I have a confirmed line running to Matakoa through the patewomack tribe.

I also have suspected Cherokee lineage but still trying to confirm that line. Possible connection through fields and the Cherokee chief Texas Dick who is the grandson of my ancestor? James royston Fields.

I also have chromosome matches to cree nation and the Athabascan tribes.

I also show Cherokee,Lumbee,and Brazilian Amazonian on my DNA consultants test results.
by Aurelia Moore G2G Crew (420 points)
edited by Aurelia Moore
I match you on chromosomes 1,3,4,5,9, twice on 12, and on 18 & 20. Nice to meet you cousin. My Gedmatch is MA2205252
Alex, According to GEDmatch you and Aurelia don't share any autosomal DNA. Did you reduce the default value for the minimum segment cM size from 7.0?
And even at 7 cm it’s more likely to be identical by coincidence than evidence of an actual biological connection

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