Im looking for all Native Americans who have gedmatch.

+9 votes
3.2k views
My Gedmatch is UJ9343921

Im looking for others with NA who are willing to let me compare our dna. Those I know for fact I share NA dna with are Pumanky,Cheraw and Cherokee.

I know so much of our history has been lost and I may never prove anything but only to myself. The major company's seem only to show my European Ancestry but I know for sure that I have none European ancestry.  Middle Eastern, Moorish and Native American.  I also possibly connect to the Melungeons.

If you match me please share your number and tribe or otherwise the family you belong to. Thank you for your time.
in Genealogy Help by Joseph Putnam G2G6 Mach 2 (26.7k points)
retagged by Ellen Smith

Sherry, for many biological and mathematical reasons, with autosomal DNA you are quite unlikely to find verifiable matches beyond the level of 5th cousins. Here's another chart to glance at. And the work by Dr. Tim Janzen in looking at trio-phased individuals found that a 7cM segment was false-positive 58% of the time, not 53%. If almost 6 in 10 reported matches are false, is it throwing out the baby with the bathwater, or simply taking reasonable steps to make certain that the baby in the bathwater is our own? Down at 5cM, almost 9 out 10 of the babies will be someone else's. I know; world's absolute worst counter-analogy. frown

In my comparisons using a 2.08-million SNP superkit at GEDmatch along with 11 of our common microarray test results of the same DNA, the worst performing common test--one of the current ones--showed, with default settings and a threshold of greater than or equal to 10cM, 2.1 matches for every one displayed as matching the far more extensive superkit. This is by no means conclusive, but it implies that, with more unique SNPs tested for comparison, even at 10cM more results at GEDmatch could be false-positive than not, that small segments have been conflated as being one continuous range of half-identical nucleotides when, in fact, the reported segment is broken somewhere by a mismatch because our typical autosomal DNA tests look only at about 0.02% of our DNA...and any two tests might be examining as few as 17% of the same SNPs.

The SNP count does definitely matter...but it's the SNP density, not the total number, as well as which SNPs and where they're located. Too, GEDmatch recently lowered their default "SNP window size threshold" yet again. Prior to GEDmatch Genesis the minimum was 700 SNPs; with Genesis going into production, that became a dynamic range between 200 and 400; now it's "about 2/3 of segments will have between 185 and 214 SNPs." I consider the original 700 reasonable, but the modifications were made because, with the introduction of the Illumina GSA chipset, we began having a range of different microarray tests that overlap on only a minority of the same SNPs. In order to keep reported match numbers up, GEDmatch decreased the SNP density requirements.

With a very broad brush, 1cM will be approximate, with a lot of flexibility based upon chromosomal location, to about 1 million base pairs. At that relative density, there should be just over 200 SNPs per centiMorgan. Anything much lower than that means fewer SNPs have been examined in a comparison between two tests than the approximate physical average tested across the genome. Caution should be applied. If you see, for example, a 7cM segment reporting 300 matching SNPs when the genomic average should be closer to 1,400, there may be a problem.

Our microarray tests look only at about one marker in every 4,800 base pairs of nucleotides, on average. That relative SNP density is an element that can provide us a bit of confidence that we're doing enough apples-to-apples matching for the outcome to be meaningful. If there's a relatively long stretch in the raw data where SNPs are simply assumed to match but were not tested, that can lead to mistakes. At the bottom of the GEDmatch free one-to-one autosomal comparison tool is a little checkbox to "prevent hard breaks." I recommend that be kept unchecked. The distance allowed between matching SNPs of up a half million base pairs is excessive.

Jennifer, DNA is absolutely just another piece in the puzzle. That's something a lot of people forget because it looks all "sciencey." But it's a form of evidence to be evaluated and weighted just like any other. It seldom gives us a binary yes-or-no result. Other than for twins, parents, and full siblings, the data has to be rigorously analyzed. But--and there's a catch--it's unlike any traditional form of genealogical evidence we have ever used and it requires a different skillset to analyze. I've written over 1.4 million words (literally) of stuff here on G2G over the past six years, 95% of it about DNA. You can browse some of that and decide if I have any idea whereof I speak.

As a mini-experiment, if I use the GEDmatch free one-to-one tool at the default settings and compare your kit against my WGS superkit, predictably I get, "No shared DNA segments found." If I leave it at 7cM but drop the SNP window down to 100, I still get no shared DNA. At 5cM, no shared DNA.

But if I use my 23andMe v5 test kit, which has few in-common tested SNPs with your AncestryDNA results, and leave the centiMorgan threshold at 7cM but move the SNP window to 100, we end up showing 15.2cM shared over two segments. If I then move it to 5cM and leave the 100 SNP window, we show 36.7cM total across six segments. Dropping it all the way down to 3cM and we come in with a whopping 106.5cM across 25 segments. Every one of those comparisons is a false-positive.

GEDmatch gives us a granular level of control over most of their tools, but that doesn't mean it isn't simple for us to make the results into a fabrication. Our goal should be to employ the most objective and realistic data we can find, and then to analyze it closely. Trying to make the data fit a desired outcome is the very opposite of the scientific method. Or of the Genealogical Proof Standard, for that matter.

I didn't mention it in my first post, but extending the examples, there is an issue with the kind of test Susannah took that makes her matching results at GEDmatch more difficult to interpret. Genes for Good use a microarray unlike any of the companies doing genealogy testing. Their principal interest is medicine and pharmacology, so while they test more SNPs than any other of our standard companies (almost 744,000), only about 250,000 of them are not exonic markers...meaning that all but those 250K are related to protein coding genes or their flanking or control regions. Other than genes that involve phenotype, like hair and eye color, the rest of those are going to be 99.9%+ identical among all humans. We all have the same neural, cardiovascular, and musculoskeletal systems, for example.

By contrast, even though from around 10% to 18% of the SNPs our genealogy tests look at are exonic markers, that still leaves us on average with about 500,000 SNPs to compare that have more relevance to population genetics. Having half as many meaningful markers in the Genes for Good data definitely, at least at GEDmatch, leads to an increased possibility of false-positives. If I run my 23andMe v5 kit against Susannah's kit at the 3cM, 100 SNP window, prevent hard breaks settings, the result is a humorous 238.8cM over 56 shared segments. If that total amount were over a dozen or fewer segments, that would make us 2nd cousins.

About 10 days ago here on G2G I provided a summary of some the steps I go through to evaluate the validity of small segments. It isn't that they're de facto always false. But they're sorta like the FTX crypto-currency guy trying to sell you an expensive investment that he guarantees will increase over 10-fold by next Monday: approach with skepticism. Again, just like in lab research, the primary objective is to attempt to disprove the hypothesis, not prove it. The real battle is to always avoid confirmation bias.

If I downloaded my ancestry dna it will show the Cherokee
DNA tests cannot connect you to a specific tribe, only to people.

Kathie is absolutely correct. The peopling of the Americas began with a (relatively speaking) small population of individuals with a very similar genetic background. And there continued to be little contact with other kinds of continental/subcontinental populations for thousands of years. If we ignore admixture that continued to occur among geographically proximal peoples (e.g., Plains Nations members taking spouses from other Plains tribes), over time certain genetic differentiations would likely have developed. But our inexpensive microarray tests aren't extensive or specific enough to make those distinctions.

If you see a test or an analysis of test data that purports to do so, be skeptical and research the reputation of that company. It won't be one of the major ones we currently use for genealogy, and it won't be one run by a respected academic institution.

Even the GWAS (genome-wide association studies) we see on the subject of Native Americans have only attempted to make fairly broad geographical distinctions, not tribal ones. In the U.S. alone, there are over 570 tribal nations that are recognized by federal law, and more than 60 additional that are recognized by individual states. The nations determine the requirements and criteria for citizenship in a tribe, and DNA evidence is not used by any tribal nation I'm aware of. Partly for that reason, the NA peoples have a lower participation rate in DNA testing than the general U.S. population which, in turn, means we have less reference data for them overall.

There are also other factors that make DNA testing unattractive for some Native Americans. As one example, the Eastern Shoshone in Wyoming require that you be at least one-quarter Native in order to be a tribal member. That could mean loss of some federal and other benefits if descendants are no longer tribal citizens. Yet 2010 U.S. census data indicate that more than half of NA people don't marry other Natives, a rate significantly higher than any other census group in the country.

That intermarriage admixture has also had long-term effects on the autosomal DNA of the founding population. The biology of meiosis means that amounts of a specific haplotypic DNA decrease much faster in an admixed population than does the so-named "blood quantum." We very seldom pass down our entire genome; pieces of it almost always end with us. We can (roughly) estimate how much of our autosomal DNA is passed down to the next generation based upon the number of children we have: 1-(0.5n) where n is the total number of children. That assumes the children are siblings, not identical twins, and that the average amount of autosomal DNA shared between siblings is 50%, which might even be slightly on the high side. Mercedes Brons notes that full siblings generally share 33% to 50% of their DNA; the way 23andMe reports the calculation, they show that the sibling sharing range is 38% to 61% (their numbers include xDNA). The result is that you'll need to have 7 children, on average, to pass along 99% of your DNA. Two children, and about 25% of it is not passed down; 3 children, about 12.5% won't be inherited by anyone. That's the principal mechanism at work when we see estimations like those from U.C. Davis population geneticist Graham Coop that indicate, by our 10g-grandparents, there's only a 20% chance than any given one of them contributed any DNA to us at all, the chance is about 40% at the level of 8g-grandparents. Our genetic ancestry is always going to be different than our genealogical ancestry and, as we go back in time, we have far fewer genetic ancestors than a tidy family tree chart would imply.

The uniparental DNA, yDNA and mtDNA, can't be used for the purpose of tribal differentiation because, since they don't undergo recombination, the genetic history can't discern individual tribal haplotypes: an unbroken mtDNA line could be indistinguishable whether from the Tlingit in the Pacific Northwest or the Awa-Kwaiker in Ecuador.

This is why Ancestry writes that it, "...does not break down DNA results by tribe, but we do provide an approximate geographical region (Indigenous Americas).... To provide a tribal level of identification, Ancestry would need much more genetic information from these communities. But for reasons relating to tribal sovereignty, it also might not be ideal to break ethnicity down by tribe."

Some other good resources are:

Sarah, I am related to an L B Carr. I was wondering if that name sounds familiar. I also am related to many other Carrs as evidenced by matches on My Heritage, Familytree DNA, and GEDmatch. I am able to trace my roots back to the Powhatan and Wicocomico tribes. I also have many Cherokee cousins, perhaps you are also one, including nonliving cousins who are on the Dawes Rolls. Perhaps when you mentioned that Ancestry showed your NA heritage, that is what you were referring to, and you already knew you were Cherokee from other sources. I would like to personal message you if you don't mind.
For all of those responding to this thread it would be most helpful if you would build out your family trees here on Wikitree.  There are many tools here that can help you determine relationships and to see which DNA test takers are related to someone.  A well-documented tree is the only way to determine whether a potential DNA match is actually the relative you believe him or her to be.
Exactly! Without a good, well sourced tree, it's nearly impossible to figure out how you relate to a particular individual.  Even at only the 3rd cousin level, you have 16 potential family trees (paths) that could be a possibility. Most of you are talking 3cM to 7cM matches so you are talking probably 512 to 1024 possible paths to your ethnicity inheritance (straight math).  So the better your tree is, the better your ethnicity can be verified).

Start with you and your immediate family, then work back another generation, then another, and then another, etc. DNA can then be used to triangulate with other descendants to "prove" likely descent from one ancestral couple or individual.  Doing it the other way around can be extremely difficult, if not impossible.
Hello! We match at Total Half-Match segments (HIR) 11.4cM (0.319 Pct)

3 shared segments found for this comparison.
I am a Carr. Please tell me more of the NA connection. :)

Monica
I am related to an LB Carr. I descend down through several native American lines, including Croshaw, Petty, Blackwell, and Tapp. Are you on any DNA websites?

8 Answers

+5 votes

Hello Joseph.

Out of curiosity I checked our ged# -mine is WA594280C1. One testing site showed me as having a tiny bit of NA dna, not enough to show the tribe. However, I do have 6gg who were NA, from the Mohawk tribe. I have 7.6 cM and MRCA of 7.4.

by Lillian Pauley G2G4 (4.1k points)
Thank you
I do not think we share NA but we do both share more than a few royal and noble ancestors.
Curious on who they are.....
Edward Bulkeley seems to be our nearest listed common ancestor.
I match you at 6.5 MRCA. I definitely have Cherokee, and discovering Shawnee currently.
Where listed as 11th cousins via Hudson and Bowman lines.
My GEDnumber is BJ5454014. I match you with 83 shared matches. My name is Jennifer Harris Wolff. I notice a shared match: Arnold Harris. I believe I am part Cherokee. I am definitely Wicocomico.
I believe I am also Cherokee. My name is Jennifer Harris Wolff. My GED number is BJ5454014.
Hi Jennifer.

We share 6cm and 3 mutual cousins on gedmatch.

Monica
+5 votes
I do not have a Ged match or gedcome account but have a small amount of American Indian DNA.  I received a match on ancestry with a William Patrick Crazythunder Jr. He lives on a Reservation in northern US.
by Anonymous Private G2G4 (4.8k points)
+4 votes
Gedmatch has in its free tools a link to Ancestor Projects. Check it out. You'll find one that fits your criteria that lets you compare people who have joined the specific project.
by Renae Rogers G2G2 (2.7k points)
+4 votes
My great grandmother was supposed to be Cherokee.  I have no evidence to support that.  I have small % in dna, like 0.5%.  My gedmatch is in my profile.
by Michelle Hunt G2G Crew (910 points)

If your great-grandmother was Cherokee she (or her parents) should be pretty easy to find in Cherokee records.  Here are some Wikitree pages you might find helpful:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Native_Americans:_Cherokee

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Finding_a_Cherokee_Ancestor

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Cherokee_Sources/Resources

Thank you!
+8 votes
Would be fun to start an Amerind and part Amerind group in Gedmatch Ancestor Projects if there is not one already. Shared dna ancestry does not give tribe membership but DNA does not lie if your DNA cousins are full blood Cherokee you are at least part Cherokee. Also fun to play around with DNA by chromesome in Admixture (heritage). Think it only takes 50 lots to start a project. I am small part GR4297284 and my brother RY9225703.
by Sherry Holston G2G6 Mach 2 (22.6k points)
Interesting, you and I have a 101 GED DNA matches. I will look them over.
Sounds like a good idea.
Someone called Ashley Laughter is one of our common matches. She is also one of My Heritage DNA matches.
+3 votes

I'm Crow and my kit is on GedMatch:  LQ4656777

by Kirby Drake G2G6 Mach 2 (23.8k points)
I have 62 matches, but interestingly enough it is more with my Russian/Ashkenazi relatives, such as Elena Smirnitskaia.
We match on 3 segments, the largest being 10.3cM (set at 7). My kit # is ED5672752
Oh, interesting. I will check our common matches. Thank you.
Please let me know what tribe you are linked to: also Crow? I am linked to Wicocomico, Powhatan, and Cherokee. My GED number is BJ5454014.

Hi Jennifer, I don't find any shared segments for us.  

The Crow language is a Siouan language1, making the assumption that all the Siouan speaking tribes broke off from a similar branch and formed local dialects, the following tribes would be possibly interrelated2:  Crow, Assiniboine, Hidatsa, Mandan, Lakota, Omaha-Poica, Dakota, Winnebago, Chwere, Kansa, Osage, Quapaw, Ofo, Tutelo Saponi, Catawba, Woccon, Biloxi, and Stoney (Canada).  The Crow specifically are documented to have split off from the Awatixa Hidata, "Ashalaho ('Many Lodges', today called Mountain Crow), Awaxaawaxammilaxpáake ('Mountain People'), or Ashkúale ('The Center Camp'). The Ashalaho or Mountain Crow, the largest Crow group, split from the Awatixa Hidatsa and were the first to travel west. (McCleary 1997: 2–3)., (Bowers 1992: 21) Their leader No Intestines had received a vision and led his band on a long migratory search for sacred tobacco, finally settling in southeastern Montana. They lived in the Rocky Mountains and foothills along the Upper Yellowstone River, on the present-day Wyoming-Montana border, in the Big Horn and Absaroka Range (also Absalaga Mountains); the Black Hills comprised the eastern edge of their territory."3

1. Crow language - Wikipedia

2. Siouan languages - Wikipedia

3. Crow people - Wikipedia

When I compared our GEDmatch numbers, we had 61 shared matches, including Elena Smirnitskaia, 31.4 shared cm for me, and 26.1 shared cm ro you. My grandfather father Paul Harris was Scotch-Irish, Native American, and Ashkenazi Jewish from Belaurs.
Our closest shared match is Vlad Nev, 31.8 with me, 19.6 with you.
Hi Kirby, I have mtdna matches with both Crow and Osage, so I ran your kit LQ4656777. I have about 10 family kits, and we had matches of 7,8 and 11 to your kit. So I went to your one to many....we match the top kits in your list from 7 to 15 cms.  I'll keep working to see who we share. Mary T558342
Hi Mary,

Were you able to find anything?  Let me know if you need any help! :)
+5 votes
I have very Early African ancestry with NativeAmerican ancestry. With Gedmatch, I’m related to the Echota Cherokees, Montauk, and some Taino so possibly Seminole, so far. I matched you Joseph 25/3. I am ZK6526531.
by JB Y G2G3 (3.2k points)
We have 57 shared matches, including Erica Christiensen, Gina Richardson, Valeria Telepinsky, and Orville Nelson. Do you have some Cherokee surnames I could compare?
Hello JB. I match you at 5.4cm. I am also AA with Echota and Seminole ancestry. We share several matches. Would love to talk further.

Monica
My father was adopted. He was very white looking, he is deceased, and I discovered an African line through the “Goings” family. 3 were transported to the Jamestown Colony in the year 1619 from a country called Ndongo, within present day Angola. The original surname was Portuguese “Gonwelão”. It was anglicized to Goins. Many east coast tribes including Cherokee, Creek, Choctaw, Lumbee, and more have Goings or Goins ancestors. Even though they arrived mixed race-I think there connection to the Sephardim and Portuguese genes is through a converso explorer called Diogo Gomes a.k.a. Dias. He had no European children, so, genetic lines cannot be traced. In the Virginia Colony,  Because they were mixed or mulatto, they were not to marry Caucasian women. It was however, okay to marry the native women. I found a document on rootsweb that related to tithing. 3 Goings brothers were home and the church had stopped by to assess property for the tithe. The assessor had inquired about the wives ancestry, to which all 3 brothers remained silent. If they said they were native, they would have had to pay a tithe as then the wives would be considered chattel. One wife was Choctaw, and my line, I believe this is Lucinda Blackwell who married Henry Goings,and is possibly Creek Mvskoke. I can’t remember the ancestry of the third wife. The original African ancestor was Diogo Gonwelão and wife and child, and lore has him going to Bayern, Germany. I have no idea if he was free or a servant. His young son, Joao Gonwelão, had to say behind. He worked his way out of his indenture and became a free man 7-10 years later. His indenture holder was a man named Evans, I believe.
Good day, Monica. Otis Walter Albert is my 11th cousin. We both appear to descend from Mary Frances Sloman, myself through her marriage with Francis Poythress whose sister married Thomas Rolfe, son of Pocahontas.
So, interesting. I descend through the Goins (Gaines) line as well as through the Blackwell line.
+2 votes
Hi there, I ran my numbers against yours and we share four different segments. My kit number is fq8026450.

I have a confirmed line running to Matakoa through the patewomack tribe.

I also have suspected Cherokee lineage but still trying to confirm that line. Possible connection through fields and the Cherokee chief Texas Dick who is the grandson of my ancestor? James royston Fields.

I also have chromosome matches to cree nation and the Athabascan tribes.

I also show Cherokee,Lumbee,and Brazilian Amazonian on my DNA consultants test results.
by Aurelia Moore G2G Crew (420 points)
edited by Aurelia Moore
I match you on chromosomes 1,3,4,5,9, twice on 12, and on 18 & 20. Nice to meet you cousin. My Gedmatch is MA2205252
Alex, According to GEDmatch you and Aurelia don't share any autosomal DNA. Did you reduce the default value for the minimum segment cM size from 7.0?
And even at 7 cm it’s more likely to be identical by coincidence than evidence of an actual biological connection

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