How do I verify or refute that my Grandfather defected from the Imperial German Navy circa 1885-1890?

Question

His Wikitree profile is Wiedner-45.

He was born Bruno Bernhardt Wiedner in Schwetz, West Prussia on 10/06/1870. (The town is now Swiecie, Poland)

In April, 1890, he was gainfully employed in St. Louis, MO under the name Charles Walter.  He legally changed it in 1903.

He was absolutely mum on his pre-St. Louis life (apparently even with his immediate family).

A vague family rumor existed that he had defected from the Imperial German Navy when his ship was in port in either Boston or New York.  Considering his birth date and the validated fact that he was gainfully employed in St. Louis in April of 1890, the time period for the alleged activity is in a very narrow range, if it happened.

I want to validate the event or disparage the event.  Where do I look?

Comments

Nice job listing the issues on the profile.  I wonder if you can scan, or photograph, the documents mentioned and post them to the profile?  They might help people who want to research him.

Answer 1

I think step 1 is try to validate he was ever in the German navy and do they have him listed as deserting?

Answer 2

Very interesting.  My maternal Grandfather Richard Erdmann Suhse>Suesse>Sees born in Halle 1881 said same thing .... he jumped- ship (no date; a submarine?) in NY City Harbor during the ship's visit there. However I do have a postcard mounted portrait photo of him (?) in German Sailor's uniform (cap say "torpedo") taken in that major northern Germany Navy port (name ?).  I'm not sure when Germany developed their submarine service.

Comments

Hi,

there were with the ports of Wilhelmshaven  and Kiel two naval bases at that time. The first U-Boot under the Imperial German naval ensign was U1, commissioned in 1906. Second boat was U2, 1908, with a max. range of between 1500 an 18 miles. So it is unlikely that theses boat could cross the Atlantic Ocean.

The first U-Boat that crossed the Ocean was U-Deutschland, a  boat under merchent flag.

If on the cap tally is written something like "Torpedo" it is very likely that the person on the photo was based at that time in Kiel. IMHO, the boat's name on the cap tally may give  a hint if the torpedo boat could have been moored in a US harbour.

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That's great info.  The photo studio is marked as being in "Kiel".  Maybe that was some kind of enlistment photo.  And yes, when doing my search about German submarines and dates, I became suspicious about the story mentioning a submarine.  Perhaps he served on a distroyer of other type of ship that could launch torpedo's (??). My grandmother talked about him complaining that while on-board they had live animals for food/drink and he had to remove/dispose of the animal excretions by hand.  The only option would have been that the photo was of his younger brother Otto but he was in the German Army during WW1.  I should get copies of his 1927 US naturalization papers - not that the truth would appear there..

Answer 3

I looked, hoping to find naturalization record online, but couldn't find it, although I found several other records you can add to his profile.

There are 4 census records for him, all married to Anna.  In 1910, his 2 sons and daughter Viola were with them but in 1920, 1930, and 1940, only Viola was with them:

• "United States Census, 1910," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M21F-FV2 : accessed 23 October 2021), Chas B Walter, St Louis Ward 12, St Louis (Independent City), Missouri, United States; citing enumeration district (ED) ED 185, sheet 8A, family 154, NARA microfilm publication T624 (Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, 1982), roll 816; FHL microfilm 1,374,829.
• "United States Census, 1920", database with images, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M8ZP-2HK : 2 February 2021), Charles B Walter, 1920.
• "United States Census, 1930," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XHJX-VQB : accessed 23 October 2021), Charles B Walter, St Louis (Districts 251-500), St Louis (Independent City), Missouri, United States; citing enumeration district (ED) ED 468, sheet 11A, line 20, family 198, NARA microfilm publication T626 (Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, 2002), roll 1234; FHL microfilm 2,340,969.
• "United States Census, 1940," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K74Y-4V5 : 28 July 2019), Charles B Walter, Ward 12, St. Louis, St. Louis City, St. Louis City, Missouri, United States; citing enumeration district (ED) 96-288, sheet 11B, line 56, family 258, Sixteenth Census of the United States, 1940, NARA digital publication T627. Records of the Bureau of the Census, 1790 - 2007, RG 29. Washington, D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, 2012, roll 2192.

I also found his 1900 census record, with his last name incorrectly shown as Halter.  He and wife Alma lived with her parents and their 2 sons were shown as nephews of Alma's parents, instead of grandchildren:

• "United States Census, 1900," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M38N-YMK : accessed 23 October 2021), Charles Halter in household of George F W Posch, Carondelet Township (northwest corner), St. Louis, Missouri, United States; citing enumeration district (ED) 112, sheet 14B, family 299, NARA microfilm publication T623 (Washington, D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, 1972.); FHL microfilm 1,240,888.

 

Comments

I found more records, but they exceeded size limit of answer.

1897 and 1899 business directory listings show his address:

• "United States City and Business Directories, ca. 1749 - ca. 1990", database, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6ZFL-K3DJ : 29 April 2021), Charles B Walters, 1897.
• "United States City and Business Directories, ca. 1749 - ca. 1990", database, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6ZQ7-KYQN : 13 April 2021), Charles B Walter, 1899.

In addition, his son Leonhard's birth record in (Missouri State Archives; Jefferson City, MO, USA; Missouri Birth Records [Microfilm], found at ancestry.com) shows:

Name:	Leonhard Alex Walter
Gender:	Male
Race:	White
Birth Date:	30 Jul 1893
Birth Place:	St Louis, Missouri, USA
Father:	Chas B Walter
Mother:	Clara Walter
Page number:	140
Line Number:	62

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Suggestion - in your citation for the find a grave page, if you add:

https://

in front of the "www.findagrave.com/ ..." then it will show on the profile view page as a link.

Answer 4

I will post  the documents on his profile.  But they are ALL post-emigration.  The hows and whys of his emigration still remani (and may never be unearthed).   All I know is that Brruno Wiedner was gainfully employed by Hager Hinge inm St. Louis before his 20th birthday (April 1890).  From is birth in October 1870 to that job is ???????!

Answer 5

He was emplyed by Hager Hinge as Charles Walter.

Answer 6

I descend from the Fred Walter family of  St Louis.  He was a confectioner/ candy maker. zHe married Eva Weber in 1854. He died. 1902.  No relation to Charles   He was Fred was French from Alsace born around 1822-1824.

Answer 7

July 29, 2023 - I am withdrawing this request as Im now know that he did not nhave any Prussian/Germany military connections.

Comments

How did you know it now?