Pruning the tree, who is the wife of Benjamin Goodman?

Question

Seems there are two seperate WikiTree profiles for this gentleman with a wife for each of his profiles?  Was he married to two different women?  AND even if he was, can we flesh out the truth of this Goodman family and get them merged into one "limb"?

Goodman-2071  and Goodman-2645

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Thanks,

Mags

Comments

I have been researching the GOODMAN family.

Goodman-2071 has provided great info for us & there is a dispute about which woman he married. So lately I am trying to separate different men with the same name of Benjamin GOODMAN.

When I read Benjamin Goodman's profile, it sounds like there was more than one man with that same name on the convict transportation ship ? Is that correct ?

How do we know that the man born in Bedfordshire, England is the same man as the one in Middsex County, England ?

Can anyone explain how the 1639 birthdate is linked to Benjamin GOODMAN on the convict ship ?

On this webpage ...
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/london-hearth-tax/london-mddx/1666/st-katherines-by-the-tower-st-katherines-court

there is a 1666 Hearth Tax of Middlesex County, St Katherines by the Tower shows a Samuel GOODMAN with 5 hearths.

Does hearth mean home in England ? If so, that would seem to indicate that this Samuel is an older man who has had the time to amass some measure of wealth. Could he have had an errant son who was the one on the convict ship ?

Goodman-2071 has the oldest son named Samuel GOODMAN.

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G. Redmond, I'm assuming you've already read Benjamin's profile (Goodman-2071), but I have quite a lot of information that was not included in his profile.  I am gathering some of this additional information and should be able to respond to your request for information in some detail within 3 or 4 days.

Though just to begin it might be helpful to know Benjamin's father was William Goodman.

Judy Goodman Wardlow (Goodman-2062)

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I wasn't able to find any sources that showed that Benjamin GOODMAN in Bedforshire moved to London. But I do agree that William GOODMAN of Befordshire had a son named Benjamin GOODMAN ... and I found a 1678 record which showed that this Benjamin is still in Befordshire ...

Barford Hundred HSA/1678 W/12 1678
Barford Hundred: Bedford Assizes, 7 March 1677/8
Goldington: Robt. Knott & Tho. Moakes present
John Curtice husbandman,
Benjamin Goodman labourer, and
Robt Bills for not coming to church 2 Sundayes last past ...

The above Benjamin GOODMAN had a son, also named Benjamin GOODMAN who was about 10 years old in 1678 in Bedfordshire.

So it had to be another Benjamin GOODMAN of London that went to Barbados & colonial America by then.

I have started putting some info about GOODMANs who were living in that part of London here ...

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Goodman-4511
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Goodman-4516

I have not yet found if the above 2 profiles are related to each other, but both do have a relative named WATTS ... don't know if they are from the same line of WATTS.

Since I am new to projects, can anyone help me with the proper tags for these new profiles ? Thanks

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Just a quick comment and then I have to meet a repairman working on our heating system -- its 22 degrees outside and our heat died!

First, no member of our branch of the Goodman family has ever been associated with Goldington.

I have Benjamin's christening document.  I have his complete reprieve document dated Feb 1672 both original and translation.  I posted excerpts on Benjamin's profile.  I have the document where Benjamin booked passage from Barbados to Maryland.

I guess I'm really not sure what you're looking for.

Perhaps it would also be useful for you to know that William, Benjamin's father, was married twice.  His first wife was Mary Archer, Benjamin's mother.  After she died William married Ann Southoe.

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Does the 1672 document include his birthdate ?

If not, how do you know that the christening document belongs to the SAME man as the 1672 document ?

You are saying the that the Benjamin in Bedfordshire moved 50 miles away to London, England.

And I am saying that the Benjamin in Bedfordshire moved 10 miles away to Goldington, Bedfordshire. The historic village and parish of Goldington was merged with Bedford in 1934.

So, I am asking if you can please share ANY sources that prove Benjamin GOODMAN in Bedfordshire moved to London, England?

We both agree that Benjamin was a son of William, but then we have 2 records for Benjamin GOODMAN in differents places, so we need to determine which record belongs to William's son &/or who is the other Benjamin GOODMAN in Bedfordhire.

On another point, I am currently researching the immigrant Robert GOODMAN to Virginia ...

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Goodman-4522

Thanks!

 

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I don't know who's permission you need to get, but I agree with those that think the WEBSTER wife should be removed from Benjamin GOODMAN, because I have checked a bunch of ancestry.com trees & I can find NO primary source for any marriage of hers. There are just ancestry.com tress citing each other or 2 Family Data Collections (which is not a primary source) that show ...

* Family Data Collection - Births for Johanna Webster b=1658 VA father=Henry Webster

* Family Data Collection - Individual Records for Johanna Webster (father=Henry Webster) b=1658 VA marriage=1679 Old Rappahannock (now Richmond Co, VA) spouse=Ralph Gayden

Notice that the 1679 marriage is to a Ralph GAYDEN & not Benjamin GOODMAN. Some of the family trees show her marriaed to both GAYDEN & GOODMAN but there is NO supporting Family Data Collection for the GOODMAN marriage.

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I appreciate that you're wanting to know all these things right now.  But I've got 9 other people I've promised to help with things large and small.  If you will just let me finish my other obligations I will dig out what I have on Benjamin and see what my brothers have on Benjamin and I will do my best to get your questions answered.  Right now I feel like I'm taking one step forward and 6 back and not accomplishing much.  Plus I've had my back worked on which doesn't put me in the best shape to bend over file boxes, etc.  Please bear with me a little while longer and I will do the best for you that I can.

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I am just sharing research info while "I" have it in front of me & on my computer & am working on it. The great thing about the internet is that you can read it whenever "you" want ... or you can ignore it too :))  So don't worry about it ... I am moving on to other research interests & working on other stuff already.

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I hope I can answer your questions.  The village in England where Benjamin was born, Southill, was quite small and Benjamin was from a poor family.  While the rest of his family lived and died within the confines of Southill, Benjamin apparently was made of more ambitious stuff.  He made his way to the St. Katherine’s Parish area of London seeking employment.  It is unknown at the present time why he was arrested and convicted but in 1672 he was a prisoner in Newgate Gaol.  While there Benjamin was selected with a large group of prisoners to be reprieved for transport to Barbados on the condition that he and the other reprieved prisoners not return to England for a minimum of seven years.  This reprieval listed several crimes and many names but no correlation was made between specific crime and specific name.

I posted excerpts from the reprieval document on Benjamin’s profile (Goodman-2071).  I can certainly post the entire document if you think it would be useful to you.  As you will know if you read Benjamin’s profile, he remained on Barbados for two years.  Then he booked passage to the Colony of Maryland.  I have tried for years to find the name of the ship and ship’s Captain of the ship that took Benjamin to Maryland.  I still don’t know the name of the ship but I just recently discovered the name of the Captain so I will be updating Benjamin’s profile to include that information.

Benjamin Goodman was my 5^th great grandfather.  There are some missing pieces to his story I would like to fill in but you have to remember that this is the mid to late 1600s we are talking about here.  

I'm truly sorry but I have more pressing items to take care of right now.  Any additional questions you still have you may have to research on your own.

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As to Benjamin Goodman (1639 - bef 1735), I'm going to say this one more time.  His family was so poor they were levied at 0 Hearth Tax.  The family stayed in Southill while Benjamin went to London to look for work.  

New Information I Received Just This Week:  While in London Benjamin got into trouble over someone else's property and was delivered to Newgate Gaol for Trial.  He plead Not Guilty.  The jury found him Guilty, but also found that he had no chattels for forfeiture to the Crown.  In place of his execution he asks to be transported.  The court "wishes to be advised", meaning to postpone the giving judgement in order to further to deliberate on the matter.  Therefore, the prisoner is to remain in gaol without bail until the next gaol delivery.

We know according to several sources that Benjamin's request for transportation was granted and he was, in fact, transported in Feb 1672.  Sooner or later we'll know the name of the ship and the captain that took  Benjamin to Barbados.  Almost by accident I also learned the name of the captain whose ship brought Benjamin from Barbados to Maryland in 1674.  His name is Thomas Harwood.  I'm sure it won't be long before we learn the name of that ship too.

Now I think I've provided enough information to satisfy even your skepticism.  There may have been a Benjamin Goodman who lived with his family in Goldington.  But they have nothing to do with the Benjamin Goodman family from Southill, Bedfordshire.  So I am asking you to please sever any links you may have entered with the Southill Goodmans.  Also, any profiles you may have entered  will have to be researched to find new parents, new siblings, etc.

And I'm going to ask Mags to monitor this to make sure it it is done responsibly and in a timely manner.

  

Answer 1

Benjamin Goodman, born 12 May 1639, in Southill, Bedfordshire, England was my 5th great grandfather.  I first looked for Benjamin's will as the best place to find the name for his wife.  And in Benjamin's will there is a line that reads "I do hereby nominate, ordain and appoint my loving wife Lucie Goodman and my son in law John Turner full and sole executors of this my last will and testament ... 29th day of March in the year 1729."  It should be noted that the will was witnessed by several members of the Blackwell family.

There are several entries in the Vestry Book of St. Paul's Parish of Hanover County, VA, that refer to Benjamin Goodman and his wife, Lucie Blackwell Goodman.

Both of these sources are listed on the profile of Goodman-2071.  I believe if you read this profile thoroughly you will agree that it is well-sourced.  I believe there is no question that Benjamin's wife was Lucie Blackwell Goodman.

Answer 2

So now that we have had feedback on this question, we need to move forward on merging the two Benjamins and integrating the great information that has been given here into the one profile for Benjamin Goodman.

As to the questions about the different wives, we should put the wife with the source to back her up on the profile as spouse. 

The second wife, with no sourcing, can be included in a Disputed Wives section of the biography, with a link to this G2G thread for clrification on the issue.  This Disputed section can remain until her being married to Benjmain can be proven or soundly disproven.

Does this sound good to everyone?

Mags

Comments

Mags,

Did you ever get a response in any way  from the one person who believed Benjamin's spouse was Johanna Webster?

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Good course of action. Thanks for moving this along.

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Mags, it has now been two years since the original question was posed with reference to the disputed marriage of Benjamin Goodman and Johanna Webster.  I have not heard any more on this disputed wife.  Can you tell me when you feel sufficient time has elapsed that the reference to Johanna Webster can be removed from Benjamin Goodman's profile?

I raise the question now first because two years should be sufficient time for proofs to support the Goodman/Webster marriage to have been located.  And second because a Goodman reunion will be held on 8 April.  We plan on developing a giant family tree that will be reproduced for everyone.  All attendees share Benjamin as a common ancestor and I really do not wish to have to explain the Johanna Webster situation if I do not need to.

Although this question is addressed to Mags because she initiated the original solution I welcome any comment from any member of the WikiTree Community.

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Two years in the genealogical time frame really isn't a long time to have the appropriate information appear or not appear. 

I also note that there have not been any conclusions added to this discussion in G2G. Have you been able to do more research about this, Judy? If so, could you share your information to this post? 

I think what Mags said above would still be the next step. "The second wife, with no sourcing, can be included in a Disputed Wives section of the biography, with a link to this G2G thread for clrification on the issue.  This Disputed section can remain until her being married to Benjmain can be proven or soundly disproven."

This could also be called a Research Notes section instead of Disputed Wives if that is more comfortable.  Either way, it'll be helpful for other researchers to be able to see it and contribute if they have new information/sources.

 

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Please forgive the delay in my response.  I had two groups of house guests which was wonderful but totally time consuming.

I have done some additional research.  From my Goodman research I have not found so much as a hint that Benjamin had more than one wife.  I have tried to reach out to other Goodman family researchers, but none of them had ever heard of another wife for Benjamin named Johanna Webster or anything else for that matter.

So I switched my research to Johanna.  I found Johanna was born in 1658 to Henry and Charity Webster.  She was one of 8 children, likely the oldest.  In 1679 she was married to Ralph Gayden in Old Rappahannock, Now Richmond, VA.  The birth information and marriage information were found in the Family Data Collection - Individual Records, Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc. 2000.  Elsewhere I found that Johanna and Ralph had three children, Ralph in Oct 1680, George in Dec 1682, and John in Sep 1684.

Since Benjamin Goodman married Lucie Blackwell some time before 1701 I think that rules out Johanna Webster.  Benjamin and Lucie are well documented in the Registry of St. Paul's Parish when their first-born son Samuel is being baptized.

These are the reasons I think the Disputed Wives section should be removed altogether.  But if Mags disagrees, and perhaps you as well, I have tried to understand Mags' guidance as to a Research Section.  I'm not sure that I do.  Could you perhaps clarify?

ADDED NOTE:  After further research I believe I understand what Mags would like done.  I added an additional heading that read Research Notes on 13 Jan and moved the information from Disputed Wives to Research Notes.  I believe this was the most appropriate course, as Mags had suggested.