New J2b-L283 member introducing myself

+12 votes
283 views
I'm a J2b-L283 male line researcher. My goal in using Wikitree is to help identify men in my haplogroup who may be related on the basis of surname, confirm the relationship through cheap SNP testing, and as a result enhance the reliability of  / extend the paper trail of the most distant known ancestor further back in time.

If you are J2b-L283 please reach out to me or join our FB group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/J.L283/

Our interest goes even further back than genealogy paper trails - we are interested in determining where (approximately) our common ancestors were living during the Roman Era and back to the Bronze Age.

I have a website with some of my work and links to Y-DNA resources. I developed an algorithm for computing approximate, theoretical male line migrations based on where people are living today and ancient samples.

https://phylogeographer.com/
WikiTree profile: Hunter Provyn
in The Tree House by Hunter Provyn G2G Crew (500 points)
edited by Chris Whitten
Welcome to WikiTree Hunter!

Great to see you join WikiTree

2 Answers

+8 votes
Hi Hunter,

Welcome to WikiTree! This sounds like advanced research with cutting edge techniques. I'm glad you found our community and I hope it helps you.

Chris
by Chris Whitten G2G Astronaut (1.5m points)
+7 votes

Hunter! A very hearty "welcome"! Your ears must have been burning recently because I've made frequent mention of Clade Finder: https://cladefinder.yseq.net/.

Something you might want to look at is the WikiTree Apps Project: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Project:WikiTree_Apps. There is a dedicated field for Y-haplogroup in relevant records in the WikiTree SQL database, but I don't believe much is done with it, programmatically speaking. And because so many more males have taken autosomal tests than for-purpose Y-STR or Y-SNP tests, an interesting thought might be to find a way to build an API with Clade Finder in such a way that a result there could be automatically inserted into an "Other yDNA" test results record on the person's profile at WikiTree. I believe we could increase the number of visible haplogroups by a factor of magnitude, make it extremely easy for members to extract their haplogroups from the atDNA results, make certain that those haplogroups are recorded consistently on WikiTree, and make it an automatic, painless process for the WikiTree member. Might be a way to benefit WikiTree while also gathering data for your L283 project.

Just thinking out loud, here.

Another haplogroup issue that's been a hindrance--in my opinion--to using them effectively on WikiTree is that the integral system of categorization (https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:Categories) is one that is foundationally manual. There's really no good way to adapt it to accommodate Y-haplogroups (mtDNA much less of a problem, of course).

With the FTDNA haplotree having added about 8,000 new branches to the haplotree this year alone, the only way we'll ever be able to manage the data is programmatically. For example, if someone takes a Big Y-700 and learns they are J-FT197991, there is no way currently to understand, visually represent, and categorize them as being in a subclade of L283--or M102 for that matter--so the parent clade associations are essentially lost. We see questions here on G2G somewhat frequently to the effect: "One man is R-M269 but his patrilineal 1st cousin is R-FGC39928. Since they aren't the same haplogroup, does that mean there is an NPE in the line?"

I know the haplotree disconnects between FTDNA and Adamov and company at YFull create an issue. But, really, being able to use either of them as way to help WikiTreers see or understand the hierarchical relationships among haplogroups would be extremely helpful.

In your project name you use the hybrid system of the YCC name for the basal clade first, followed by the short-form SNP subclade. An excellent nomenclature, but one not followed here at WikiTree. One alternative to the haplogroup naming issue may also be to work with Aleš Trtnik so that, in nightly (or weekly) batch processing, we might standardize on that hybrid system by doing a substitution to replace Y-haplogroup fields across the database. For example, J-FT197991 would automatically change to J2b-FT197991, and R-M269 and R-FGC39928 to R1b1-M269 and R1b1-FGC39928. That step alone could go a long way to helping members and visitors immediately see the high-level connection among haplogroups.

And... I truly didn't mean to start building a task list. It's just good to see you here, and ideas for improvements just sorta spontaneously combusted.
laugh

by Edison Williams G2G6 Pilot (452k points)

Hi Ed,

I'm glad you are making good use of Clade Finder!

I use it almost everyday because it makes it easy to find an appropriate SNP within any given branch I want to test.

I do have automated code in my systems that use the YFull nomenclature - simple as that. It's because I use the YFull tree is my input tree.
In some of the forms on my site, I use validation where one is restricted to entering one of the subclades by their name on the YFull tree. However I also support looking up by any SNP within the branch.

Here are two places where I support looking up by SNP

PhyloGeographer - https://phylogeographer.com/snp-lookup/

Y Heatmap - https://phylogeographer.com/scripts/heatmap.php

This kind of look up is relatively easy to code.

The harder and more intractable problem is trying to reconcile two trees which may have SNPs in different positions from one another.

I think the best solution here is to just support looking up by SNP as I describe above but have a toggle where you can select where you want to use YFull vs FTDNA vs other tree.
 

Thanks for the hearty welcome!

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