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Richard was an early 12th-century tenant of the Earl of Chester, known from English records. As explained by Keats-Rohan, the family was Norman, named after Presles, near Vire (modern postcode 14410).[1] As explained by Loyd, Presles "occurs as 'Praelliae' in 1198 and as 'Praeriae' in 1269", and it was "an important possession of the earls of Chester" in France.[2]
As will be explained, he might have already been in Domesday Book (1086) but this is uncertain.
In a large charter confirming many earlier grants to Chester Abbey, confirmed by Richard, Earl of Chester, and supposedly made 1119, Richard and two sons, Adam and William, gave Noctorum, across the Mersey river from modern Liverpool. One version of that charter (copy "E") adds "and Lambert", but the wording does not explain what Lambert's connection is to the others. This same copy "E" also mentions "Ricardo de Praeres et Gutha" as witnesses to another grant which is not listed in other copies.[3]
Ormerod assumed this Gutha, whose name he reinterpreted as Galtha, was Richard's wife, and the mother of Adam and William. See below.[4]
Apparent and possible sons identified so far:
Barraclough's edition also shows evidence of a Matheus Praers as a witness in later charters of the Earl, after Adam stops appearing, approximately in the time Henry II. Perhaps Matheus was the successor of one of Richard's sons, such as Adam.
Tait, in his edition of the Noctorum charter, noted:[6]
And Tait adds that in Domesday Book, Richard was possibly also a tenant of Hugh Fitz-Osbern at Edritone, also in the Cheshire hundred of Atiscros.[7]
More recently however, in her series of works, Domesday People and Domesday Descendants, Keats-Rohan does not list him as someone appearing in Domesday Book. She lists the Domesday Richard of Barraclough's charter 8 as "Ricardus Pincerna" - equating him to the person found in Barraclough's charter 26.[8] Philip Morgan of the Hull project also does not remark on any such Praers connection (nor any connection to Richard Pincerna).[9] Tait remarks that Richard Pincerna was succeeded by a Robert.[10]
The mesne manor and advowson came to be held under the barons of Wich Malbank by a Praers family. Ormerod is the main modern source still cited today for the idea that Richard's son Adam is the ancestor of a family who held Barthomley.[11]
In an early 12th century charter by Earl Richard of Chester and King Henry I, concerning grants which were apparently made before 1115, confirmation was made of grants to Troarn by Ranulf de Prateriis and his nepos (nephew or grandson) Alfred de Combray, who was apparently acting as an heir for the lands involved, which were in Normandy and England.[12] As noted by Barraclough, the occasion of this grant involved a new priory dependent to Troarn, and:
Apparently not noticed yet, the same group of people also appear in more French charters, and they appear to have also had a contemporary named Radulf.[14]
Keats-Rohan (p.648) notes that Ranulf had a brother named Robert who died as a monk in Troarn in Normandy about 1120.
The chartulary or register of the abbey of St. Werburgh, Chester
"Ricardus de Praers dedit Cnoctirum. Teste Willelmo et Adam filiis suis".
"Noctorum in Wirral was granted by Richard de Praers, who may be identified probably with the Richard who held it and “ Claitone " in Atiscros hundred under Wilham Malbank in 1086, an identification which seems to have escaped the genealogists.® He is supposed to have been the ancestor through his son Adam, a witness to this grant, of the Praers of Barthomley and other Malbank manors in Nantwich hundred". [17]
366 . "Quitclaim by Robert le (rectius de) Praers of lordship and lodging-right in the land in Northgate Street which William, son and heir of Nicholas Franceys, gave to the monks (No. 363). c. 1250-1313". "Robertus le Preeres quietum clamauit dominium et hostillagium que habuit in tota medietate terre, que quondam diuisa fuit hereditarie inter Nicholaum Franceys et Thomam Heward per decessum Eue amite eorum, in Nortgatestrete, iacentem inter terram quam predictus N[icholaus] de domino Ada le Preeres patre suo tenuit et terram quam prefatus T[homas] Hereward de Willelmo filio Colberti aliquando tenuit, quam quidem medietatem terre Willelmus filius et heres predicti N (icholai) monachis dedit". "The grantor was probably Robert de Praers of Baddiley, son of the Adam mentioned in the note on No. 363, who died in 1312-13" [18]
Ormerod gives a quite different account to Wikitree
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"The manor was given by Randal de Praers to his son, who assumed the name Stoke, and later passed to the Beeston and Aston families. By (1622), it was held by the Minshull family of Stoke Hall" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoke,_Cheshire_East
https://archive.org/details/Chartersoftheearlsofchester/page/n51/
https://archive.org/details/chartularyorregi791manc/page/40/mode/2up
When we do a merge of medieval profiles, as you surely know, they often have different surnames because medieval people often did not really have surnames. The surnames on Wikitree are very often made up, just like the birth years and death years are. There is no acceptable source being given here. So using reasons like this to block merges is not a reasonable approach. We have to clean things up. If your point is that the merged profile should not have the surname Stoke then that would not be a reason for a merge rejection would it? Please be constructive and explain what should be done here.
edited by Kenneth Shelton
Is there anything I need to delete in order to move forward and avoid such artificial problems?
I find it very frustrating that you work to deliberately make editing on Wikitree unpleasant and difficult for people who disagree with your eccentric methodology.
Ormerod gives a quite different account to Wikitree
edited by Andrew Lancaster