William (Borthwick) Borthwick Third Lord Borthwick Knt.
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William (Borthwick) Borthwick Third Lord Borthwick Knt. (abt. 1463 - 1543)

Sir William Borthwick Third Lord Borthwick Knt. formerly Borthwick
Born about in Scotland.map [uncertain]
Ancestors ancestors
Husband of — married before 31 Mar 1491 in Scotlandmap
Descendants descendants
Died at about age 80 in Scotlandmap [uncertain]
Profile last modified | Created 2 Jun 2013
This page has been accessed 2,142 times.
Scottish Nobility
William (Borthwick) Borthwick Third Lord Borthwick Knt. was a member of Scottish Nobility.
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Preceded by
William Borthwick
3rd Lord Borthwick
abt 1503 - 1543
Succeeded by
John Borthwick

Contents

Biography

Notables Project
William (Borthwick) Borthwick Third Lord Borthwick Knt. is Notable.
William (Borthwick) Borthwick Third Lord Borthwick Knt. is a member of Clan Borthwick.

Birth

William was the son and heir of William Borthwick, 2nd Lord Borthwick and an unknown mother.[1]

King James IV signed at Edinburgh a Precept dated 31st March 1491 receiving Alexander Borthwick, Master Adam Borthwick, Master Alexander Borthwick, William Hay, James Sinclair and William Dalrymple, as attorney or attornies for Margaret Hay, spouse of [this] William Borthwick, son and heir apparent of William Lord Borthwick, in all negotiations, speeches, suits and quarrels moved or to be moved by the said Margaret.[2]

[This] William, Lord Borthwick, had a new Crown charter confirmed to him on 21st August 1538 of all the Borthwick superiorities incorporated into a new [feudal] Barony, with remainder to his son and heir John and his legitimate heirs, failing whom to Sir John Borthwick of Cinerey, Knt., and his heirs, failing whom to Robert Borthwick of Gordonshall and his heirs, failing whom to William Borthwick of Crookston, etc.[3]

Marriage

William married Margaret, daughter of John, Lord Hay of Yester in 1491,[4][5] where:

Margaret and William's marriage produced the following issue:

  • John, 4th Lord Borthwick
  • Thomas Borthwick, Master of Borthwick, (d.v.p.,s.p.)[6][7][8]
  • Catherine, m. William, Earl of Glencairn, d. a 17 Jan 1527/28.[9][10]
  • Margaret, said to have married Sir John Borthwick of Cineray, who must have been a close cousin as he is listed in the entails of the Lords Borthwick.[11]
  • Jonette, married Sir Alexander Lauder of Haltoun, Knt.[12][13][14]

Death

It is sometimes said that this Lord Borthwick fell at Flodden. However Cockayne states: "the 4th [sic] Lord Borthwick fought and was wounded at the Battle of Flodden."[15]

Research Notes

The most crucial source for the Lords Borthwick is the 1986 Judgement in the Court of the Lord Lyon which appeared in The Scots Law Times 3rd July 1987. (ISSN 0036-908X). Following exhaustive new research the lineage (and numbering) was corrected.

  • The Scots Peerage admits that there is no record of the death of a Lord Borthwick prior to 1543, but alludes to a story that he was slain at Flodden.[16] Although it further it admits the lack of proof, it then assumes it is true and assigns the death between 28 May 1543 and 19 Feb 1543-44 as though it were his son increasing the error in titling by naming him the 5th Lord.
  • Jonette Borthwick later Lauder, or Janet, was the daughter of William, Lord Borthwick, son of William and Margaret Hay.[17] She has been detached from this profile and added as a child of William, fifth lord. Incorrect and should not have been detached from this page. The next Lord Borthwick did not marry until after 1540! William 5th Lord Borthwick did not marry until the late 1560s!
  • No sources have been located that name Gavin or confirm that he was the son of William, 3rd Lord Borthwick, and Margaret Hay. Moreover, he is not named by Balfour Paul as a possible son of William, 4th Lord Borthwick.[17] He has been detached from William and Margaret's profiles. Once again, this is wrong. Gavin was an illegitimate son and he was granted Letters of Legitimation under The Great Seal of Scotland, (no.1729) on 11th November 1537.
  • As there is no evidence that Catherine Borthwick was the daughter of Margaret Hay and William Borthwick; she has been detached accordingly.[4] The chronology places her as a daughter of [this] William, 3rd Lord Borthwick.
  • The person whom made the last three amendments is wrong and should have at least consulted the page managers before messing about. Over-reliance on Balfour-Paul and his clerks is a disaster.

Sources

  1. Paul, James Balfour. "The Scots Peerage : founded on Wood's ed. of Sir Robert Douglas's Peerage of Scotland; containing an historical and genealogical account of the nobility of that kingdom", Edinburgh: David Douglas, 1905, Vol. II, Archive.org, p. 99; N.B. erroneously referred to as fourth rather than third Lord.
  2. Calendar of Writs preserved at Yester House 1166-1625 compiled by Charles C.H.Harvey and John MacLeod, SRS, Edinburgh, 1930 no.231, p.87. Retrieved from Internet Archive (Available online); accessed 1 June 2022.
  3. The Great Seal of Scotland, no.1826.
  4. 4.0 4.1 Cokayne, George Edward, "The Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom", London: St. Catherine Press, 1912, Ed. 2 Vol II, Archive.org, p. 222
  5. Paul, James Balfour. "The Scots Peerage : founded on Wood's ed. of Sir Robert Douglas's Peerage of Scotland; containing an historical and genealogical account of the nobility of that kingdom", Edinburgh: David Douglas, 1905, Vol. II, Archive.org, p. 107
  6. Maitland (1561/1830) states his name was Arthur, and Balfour Paul (1905) states it was Thomas. Both agree he was Master of Borthwick.
  7. Burke's Peerage, Baronetage and Knightage edited by Peter Townend, 105th edition, London, 1970, p.914.
  8. The New Extinct Peerage, 1884-1971 by L. G. Pine, London, 1972, p.33.
  9. The Complete Peerage by G. E. Cockayne, edited by the Hon. Vicary Gibbs and H. Arthur Doubleday, vol.v, London, 1926, p.671.
  10. The Great Seal of Scotland no.3365 confirmed at Edinburgh, 10th July 1509.
  11. The Great Seal of Scotland no.1974, not confirmed at Leith until 23rd October 1571. Probably dated earlier as Sir John appears to have died before December 1570.
  12. The Grange of St. Giles by J. Stewart Smith, Edinburgh, 1898, p.235.
  13. The Great Seal of Scotland no.1367 confirmed at Edinburgh 28th February 1534.
  14. https://www.rps.ac.uk/search.php?a=fcf&fn=charlesii_trans&id=36625&t=trans
  15. The Complete Peerage by G. E. Cockayne, edited by the Hon. Vicary Gibbs, London, 1912, Vol.II, p.221n.
  16. Paul, James Balfour. "The Scots Peerage : founded on Wood's ed. of Sir Robert Douglas's Peerage of Scotland; containing an historical and genealogical account of the nobility of that kingdom", Edinburgh: David Douglas, 1905, Vol. II, Archive.org, p. 108; N.B. erroneously referred to as fourth and fifth rather than third Lord.
  17. 17.0 17.1 Balfour Paul, James. (1905). The Scots Peerage: Founded on Wood's ed. of Sir Robert Douglas's Peerage of Scotland; Containing an Historical and Genealogical Account of the Nobility of that Kingdom (Vol. II, p. 108). Edinburgh: D. Douglas. Retrieved from Internet Archive (Available online); accessed 1 June 2022.

See also:

  • Borthwick Clan website
  • The New Extinct Peerage, 1884-1971 by L.G.Pine, London, 1972, p.33.
  • The Scottish Nation, by William Anderson, Edinburgh, 1867, vol.II, p.339.
  • Burke, John Bernard, A Genealogical History of the Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages of the British Empire, London: Harrison,1866, p. 62




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Comments: 10

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Borthwick-136 and Borthwick-135 do not represent the same person because: These two profiles were created on the same day by the same person with different given names (Alexander vs. William) and different estimated dates of birth (1473 vs. 1511) and death. Also, the two profiles include mutually exclusive offspring whose birthdates are difficult to reconcile to a single father. How the profiles came to show the same first names and identical titles, is not clear to me, but I suggest revising them to return them to their distinct identities rather than merging them.
posted by Katherine Hunter
135 and 136 are the same individuals. Given that 136 has been extensively worked on and everything triple-checked it is a matter for you if you wish this page to be an orphan with conflicting information. You need to look at this page. It says: "William was the son of William Borthwick and Margaret Hay." It then says immediately after that: "Although the wife of William is unknown"!

The Lord Lyon's 1986 Judgement on the Borthwick Peerage Case (published in full the next year) corrects the numbering, You have John 6th lord Borthwick listed above when in fact he is the 4th. You have "Catherine, married Sir James Orichton of Frendraught" when the surname is actually Crighton. In addition this Catherine is a daughter of the 2nd, not the 3rd Lord.

posted by Gregory Lauder-Frost
edited by Gregory Lauder-Frost
Borthwick-136 and Borthwick-135 appear to represent the same person because: Same person
posted by Gregory Lauder-Frost
There have been Borthwick Peerage claims in the House of Lords over a period of 200 years and therefore it is vital that researchers realise this could be a tricky family. It is also vitally important not to be ignorant of the Lord Lyon’s 1986 judgement which found, in law, that the 1st and 2nd Lords in virtually all the directories (as they all copy from one another) was in fact the same person. This obviously alters the numbering.
posted on Borthwick-136 (merged) by Gregory Lauder-Frost
You have removed citations from this profile that were later used and are now causing other citations to have no reference definition.
posted on Borthwick-136 (merged) by Linda (Carruth) Peterson
Work in progress. I have removed things which were incorrect. As far as I can see everything is adequately sourced. If the Judgement of the Lord Lyon had been observed by other posters we would not have this problem. What is your interest on this page?
posted on Borthwick-136 (merged) by Gregory Lauder-Frost
edited by Gregory Lauder-Frost
#2 in footnotes shows no definition because the citation definition was removed.
posted on Borthwick-136 (merged) by Linda (Carruth) Peterson
Surely the details and footnotes for children should be on the children's pages. Why are we cluttering up page after page with all this? The children are already given in the principal details of each page and all people have to do is click on them and go to those pages.
posted on Borthwick-136 (merged) by Gregory Lauder-Frost
edited by Gregory Lauder-Frost
I am not looking at the profile for information. I only asked because the sources section has a problem. Thank you for fixing #2, but now #5 is missing the definition, which will generate a suggestion, but no one knows what the source is for those items.
posted on Borthwick-136 (merged) by Linda (Carruth) Peterson
Please read my last post again. Sources etc for children should be on their pages.
posted by Gregory Lauder-Frost

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