REF to text under source

+5 votes
369 views
Is there a way to place the text of a citation under source and reference it with a <ref> in the BIO?

The ID listed is an example of a profile that I would like to use this type of reference in.
WikiTree profile: Catherine Stevens
in WikiTree Help by Harry Bryan G2G1 (1.4k points)
recategorized by Ellen Smith

Hi Harry. I'm not sure what you're asking here sorry. Are you familiar with inline references? See

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Sources#Embed_them_as_references_.28footnotes.29

If not, they may be what you want. If you do know about them, perhaps you could please explain your question in more detail.

I like to list repeatedly-used sources in the Sources section, then use <ref> tags to create footnotes in the Biography section that name the author (and also the title if there is a possibility of confusion) and the page cited. See https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Legg-2420 for an example of this.

Just a note that while Ellen's method technically works, it is considered an "alternative sourcing method" and is not approved.

7 Answers

+4 votes
I do understand the <ref name="xxx" ...

What I am looking for is the ability to create a very large reference in the sources and refer to it in the BIO
by Harry Bryan G2G1 (1.4k points)

Maybe the approach Ellen suggests would work.

Another possibility would be to use subheadings (===) in the sources section and link to those. You can link to a subheading on the same page with this notation:

[[#subheading|anchor]]

It is made up of a # hash character, then the exact text of the subheading (what appears between === and ===), then the | "pipe" character, then the anchor text which you want to be visible in the link, all surrounded by double square brackets.

I don't think I've actually seen subheadings in a Sources section, but they are permitted. See

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Biographies#Proper_order

Edited to add: You could make the links into superscripts like this:

<sup>[[#subheading|anchor]]</sup>

See

 https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Editing_Tips#Superscript_and_Subscript

As stipulated there, the anchor text should not be a number.

If you name the ref tag, you can just do  ref name=namedRef and the end tag and it will add another sub-numbered link to the same place (1.1, 1.2, etc.). see source #7 on https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Crawford-18858 for an example of that in action. Also https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Richard-74 for a much better example

Alternative might be a free space page with specific context included, and then linking to that. You can jump to each header in a link specifically
+3 votes
Would formatting your profile in the manner of the following profile solve your problem?

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Fentress-26
by David Fentress G2G6 (9.8k points)
+4 votes

I have a lot of references like that.  You can shorthand using the exact same reference multiple times in a bio, but when it's different pages or different volumes  I put the full citation on the first instance:

Hampton, David K. and Baker, Jack D. eds. Old Cherokee Families, Notes of Dr. Emmet Starr. Baker Publishing Co., Oklahoma City, OK, 1997.  Vol. 1, Note B27

Then for the subsequent references I shorten it and include the new page info:

Hampton, David. Old Cherokee Families, Vol. II, Note J458

Hampton, David.  Old Cherokee Families, Vol. I, Note D298

by Kathie Forbes G2G6 Pilot (881k points)
+4 votes

You put the entire citation inside the <ref> then that will show under == Sources ==. You can put formatting inside the ref. You might want to use the Enhanced Editor to create your ref and the Preview button to see what the profile will look like. 

See https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Biographies and the links to examples. See also https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Sources#Examples. There are also example profiles linked here https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Project:Profile_Improvement

by Kay Knight G2G6 Pilot (605k points)
+3 votes

I was visited by Insom Nia last night so I had a lot of conscious pillow time to think about my problem. I came up with a work around that will do for now. I specify a short reference name such as '1850 US Census'. Clicking on the footnote number takes the reader to the short name. Then they can find the full reference by scanning back up for the Bold short title. This is easy to do because the full references are in numeric and alphabetical sequence.

See Scott-58233 Catherine (Scott) Stevens. I worked this profile up with the technique this morning.

by Harry Bryan G2G1 (1.4k points)

Interesting approach, Harry. But for Find a Grave please see

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Find_A_Grave#Acronym_or_Abbreviation_for_Find_A_Grave

I don't really see the advantage of this instead of putting the whole source citation in the ref tags. What problem are you trying to solve?

It sounds like it may be that you want to make it easier to read/edit the text in edit mode and don't like the long source citation mixed in with the bio text in edit mode (though it would look good in normal read mode). Is that the case? Just trying to understand.

I.e. why does the solution Kay mentioned in her answer not work for you?
+4 votes

This has been a continuing conundrum for me, as well. A few years ago I adopted a simple method of using HTML <span> tags to try to get around it, but it was subsequently made clear that the practice was considered prohibited (I still have profiles I haven't had time to go back and completely rewrite, however).

What it really boils down to is that for genealogy and historical research--more so than, say, scientific papers--simple, abbreviated source information typically is not sufficient. As Elizabeth Shown Mills notes in her indispensable work, Evidence Explained, a citation must serve not only to record the specific location of each piece of data, but it must also record all relevant details of the reference that affects the use or evaluation of the data.

In other words, it isn't enough to record where the information came from. In the genealogy evidence analysis process, that's the fundamental distinction among "source," "citation," and "information." What we add to profiles are not sources, they are citations. And somewhere there needs to be sufficient detail in a citation to convey to the reader what information the source contains and what about that information is relevant.

The information has to be analyzed, and for that there needs to be adequate explanation of what the information actually is. Here at WikiTree that means explaining "all relevant details of the reference" either in the text of the biography--which can really break up the flow and logical organization of a bio--or it goes somewhere else as a reference citation.

Adding to the conundrum for me is that I've created profiles that others have rewritten because they thought the citations were too lengthy. In that regard, let me say just one thing: valid information is not clutter. If a citation is nothing but a link to an external website, it absolutely positively is not being done correctly.

This need for basic, explanative information is why the Chicago Manual of Style's (see section 14.2 in the 17th edition) principal system of source citation uses notes, whether footnotes or endnotes or both, together with a detailed reference bibliography.

In fact, although the terminology is nonstandard, the WikiTree Source Style Guide (https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Sources_Style_Guide) describes essentially this same notes-plus-bibliography construction, but I believe it's widely misunderstood. When I've had discussions with other WikiTreers about citations, the default is that inline <ref> notes are the be-all and end-all. Even the featured profile of the week seldom if ever follows the style guide.

As to this, I believe the convention of using a "See also" title line is the problem. "See also" is denotative of "here are some extra items to explore," and that's how it's generally used. Conversely, a fully-qualified bibliography should contain reasonably complete and detailed information associated with each footnote/endnote citation included in the body of the document.

Chicago Manual of Style, section 14.19:

"In the system favored by many writers in the humanities, bibliographic citations are provided in notes, preferably supplemented by a bibliography. The notes, whether footnotes or endnotes, are usually numbered and correspond to superscript note reference numbers in the text."

Ideally, we would be able to have a statement in the biography hyperlinked to a footnote, and then the footnote itself hyperlinked to the detailed description and explanation of the source and the information it contains.

Having no practical and acceptable way to do that, I've started using a sublevel heading underneath "Sources" (usually titled something like "Detailed Reference List"), and then use "see also" below that to contain other items of possible interest but which were not cited in the text. Here's an example profile: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Pollard-6111.

by Edison Williams G2G6 Pilot (446k points)
Mayhap this deserves its own topic, but would like to talk this over more. EE still doesnt really include the "why" part regardless of the full citation vs subsequent citations, although there is discussion of the importance of evaluating the evidence in the first couple of chapters. Maybe it is just incumbent upon the researcher to spell out the import of each source while referencing it in the bio section.

This would be a change to many members as many (most) just state a fact and use the inline ref tag to jump to the document, leaving any and all evaluation of fitness to the reader.  My own look much like this, although I have intentions of revisiting and shoring up these profiles (best laid plans...turning eventually to "alas poor Yorick", etc.).

We throw about recommendations of the GPS as if it were sufficient to just state something should "meet" it, but practical application looks different in many situations. I will have to go revisit the PIP standards with this in mind, and wonder if the trails might be well served to introduce these concepts somehow (perhaps toward the end or as an advanced layer, as not everyone wants to get fully embedded in this from the start).
Jonathan - the PIP Voyager skill set does include Analysis of Evidence.
Thanks Kay, I see its on the rubrics, and I assume that engages some discussion around the tipic during the process,  but I was thinking more that we should be writing our bio with the explicit discussions included. Made up example somewhat like "James is found to be in his own home at the age of 16 based on the 18xx census, which may not be a primary source if the information was gathered from a neighbor (cite 18xx census). However, due to the corroborating evidence of his unexpected absence from his father's household in the same census (cite) and the diary entry from Aunt Frieda dated in August of that year (cite), which is a primary source because she mentions that she was present on his birthday at his new home, we can conclude that he moved into his own farm sometime before August 1st".
+4 votes
You are missing the <references /> tag immediately under the == Sources == heading

And lots of what you are putting under sources probably fitsmore naturally in the biography narrative.
by Kay Knight G2G6 Pilot (605k points)
edited by Kay Knight
And you can change

<ref>1843 Marriage Hamilton J. Stevens</ref>

to

<ref>1843 Marriage Hamilton J. Stevens Ancestry.com. Ohio, County Marriage Records, 1774-1993 [database on-line]. Lehi, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2016. <br>
Original data: Marriage Records. Ohio Marriages. Various Ohio County Courthouses. <br>
<br>
<b>Name: Hamilton Stevens</b><br>
Gender: Male<br>
<b>Marriage Date: 24 Jan 1843<br>
Marriage Place: Athens, Ohio, USA</b><br>
Spouse: Catharine Scott<br>
Film Number: 000311599 <br>
<br>
<b>Name:Catharine Scott</b> <br>
Gender:Female <br>
Marriage Date:24 Jan 1843 <br>
Marriage Place:Athens, Ohio, USA <br>
Spouse:Hamilton Stevens   <br>
Film Number:000311599<br>
<br></ref>

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