Is anyone working on the Gardiner lineage to Charlemagne?

Question

I have seen a few articles that indicate a Gardiner/ Gardner lineage goes all the way to Charlemagne.  Online ex: http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=wu.89066147604;view=1up;seq=31

I started to follow an aunt's lineage and noted there is a PPP profile by PGM at Gardiner-38 that is sadly in need of assistance.  It is interesting how so many royals married into royals of other countries,  

Comments

Hoping only to be helpful, I found Moriarty's work on the topic of George's age based on more than the assumption that Herodias was his first wife.

Moriarity opened the work on this point with,  "In view of the fact that we have no statement regarding his age, the ages of his wives and children become a matter of importance." George was of age in 1638 (freemanship), thus 1618 became an outside parameter.

Separate from a discussion of the wives, Moriarty went into detail about how he approached the known children's ages/births in order to conclude that all "were born approximately between 1644 and 1675, a period of some thirty years."

Moriarty then wrote, "while it would, perhaps, be possible for a man born in 1600 to have had a child born as late as 1674, when he was 74 years old, it is not probable, and still more improbable to have five children born between 1667 and 1674, i.e., between the ages of 67 and 74."

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Thanks GeneJ, I haven't seen Moriarty and George's second set of children hasn't been added to WikiTree.  I agree that the set of late children makes it unlikely (but not impossible) that George was born in 1600.

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Thanks GeneJ and John,

To clarify, the above named Rebecca may have been the child supposedly carried by her mother Herodias on her way to the Quaker whipping.

 https://archive.org/stream/gardinersofnarra00robi#page/2/mode/2up

One of the interesing things about genealogy is the facts change as more evidence becomes available!  As noted above, John Wurts had written and sold multitudes of his 8 volumes regarding the Magna Charta.  Now it has become apparent that much of his work has been disproven...

Cheers!

David

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Hi John,

Regarding the speculation <gasp... LOL> Miller and Stanton, in the link posted about Rebecca daughter of "The Colonist" had posed that perhaps his parents were actually those of "Joseph Gardiner" as recorded in passenger lists and via comparison of ages and DOB.  Clara Gardiner Miller had spent a majority of her life researching this line.

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Hi David,

I'm going to assume we are in agreement--the Rebecca, dau. of George Gardiner, who was buried at London is not preumed or possibly the child of that name born t the Rhode Island immigrant. The immigrant's daughter is said to have been "at the breast" in 1658 and later married John Watson.

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Hi GeneJ,

I believe the Rebecca whom is buried at England is likely the daughter of a George Gardiner and Sara Slaughter.  The absence of any records regarding that George and Sara after the arrival of "The Colonist" in America are rather cumbersome.  After reading Moriarty's account, and finding it hinges solely on an age differnce of 5-7 years due to fertility, and also pondering whom the parents of "The Colonist" were, more questions than answers have been found.  The antics of Herodias also traveling to America and becoming common-wed and having at least 3 known husbands is also intriguing.  A question of Benoni's mother may also be an issue?  If Sara died during the voyage to America it is within the "rhelms of possibility" that Moriarty is incorrect and "The Colonist" George is the son of Rev. Michael. and was married 3 times?   Time shall tell if Andrew Moriarty becomes a new John Wurts.  Thank-you for your time and efforts!

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I have occasionally found examples of two children, by different wives, being given the same name (and also cases of two children by the SAME wife being given the same name).  Therefore, it is not impossible that George Gardiner had an earlier daughter Rebecca (by a first wife) who stayed in England, and a later daughter Rebecca by Herodias.  I am not advocating this as a likely supposition, but with the evidence available, I hesitate to dismiss it out of hand.

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Hi John,

I was going to speak about George Foreman, but perhaps there is more on topic fodder to be found regarding earlier Gardiners and two younger brothers of "The Colonist" in the notes section at: 

https://archive.org/stream/gardinersofnarra00robi#page/200/mode/2up

the information at the top of page 201 is interesting!

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Hi I am researching my family history, surname is GARDINER, mothers maiden name. My nan was Muriel Joyce Gardiner, grandad was Ronald Gardiner , born in Kent England around 1900's to 1920's ...

Our nan had a family tree written dating back many many many years, this has been lost, but always remember her saying about Spanish ancestors 100's of years ago...

I've researched the name and their is ties to medieval France, 1066 Norman invasion, new world, ect.......

Any help would be great.

Andrew smith

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https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/portrait/D2CJ-6M8

I found this link while researching my Gardiner ancestry which goes back to Charlemagne.

 My father Peter Watts Watts-10778 and grandfather Nevile Watts Watts-10779 firmly believed that Christopher Gardiner -4353 of Minchinhampton Gloucestershire was related to William Gardiner and Anne Hastings. 

I need to know the descendants William, Thomas, Christopher, George and Harrye Gardiner by finding their baptisms and wills.

Answer 1

Yes, that would be a good solution, and then adding a link in the bio of George the immigrant. to the new George and wife Sarah, explaining the dubious connection.

Answer 2

I have no idea yet if the line I am working on points to Charlemagne. It does link to the Tudors (although I need to check the sources since I adopted a bunch of the profiles recently). 

Gardiner-160

Comments

I'd like to see some evidence for the parents of David Gardiner's father, Lion Gardiner.  "Lion" and "Lionel" (his supposed father) are admittedly similar, but this ancestral line hasn't been recognized by Douglas Richardson, as far as I know.  If accurate, this lineage is full of dozens of lineages back to Charlemagne, so I'd want to check the evidence very carefully!  Here's a website that claims that "Lion" and "Lionel" Gardiner were the same person: http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/d/e/n/Ed-C-Denne/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0408.html

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Thank you for the link John.