Is my Brick Wall finally broken?

+5 votes
343 views
William Sinclair has been my brick wall for so long and just the other day i was poking around over at Family search and went on my tree there - not very extensive , but William is my mother's mother's mother's father - not that far back - so I was looking at some sources and then went on my tree to see how one person connected and here they had a set of parents on there for ole William - and we looked - a cousin I met back in the old message boards when I first began research in the old dial up modem days with my Windows 98 computer and trips to the Library and sending off to county seats for birth certificates and such - some of you will remember - anyhow never did we find the link back from the man who came from Orkney Scotland to work with Fur Traders in what would become northern North Dakota and southern Manitoba with many from Scotland and married a half First Nations lady and  now maybe these are the correct parents - do not feel like I can trust myself to add them quite yet - but they are:

Hugh Sinclair and Barbara Knarston from Orphir, Orkney, Scotland - he was christened 28 Aug 1737 she was christened 14 Dec 1752 and their wedding was 7 Jul 1785

William I had always as born in 1788, but the birth record has him 9 Jun1786 all of the above in Orphir

do I add them, or is it still unsure?

And yes I do need to improve this profile, have learned a lot since I created his profile back a year and a half or so ago - but am I jumping on a possible or is it really his beginning?
WikiTree profile: William Sinclair
in Genealogy Help by Navarro Mariott G2G6 Pilot (167k points)
edited by Navarro Mariott

I don't know, Navarro.  Looking at your notes in the bio, you seem certain that they are two William Sinclairs who both worked for HBC.  Your notes in Sept 2018 on the profile give two possible sets of parents.  Can you trace both of these men forward -- did one perhaps stay in Orkney?  I would try to eliminate one of them if I could find records -- then I'd add whoever is left as parents and mark them uncertain.  

But, I'd have a really hard time containing my excitement.smiley 

No they are both in the HBC records, both married native women (well "my" William married a half Native woman) and contributed to the Métis community at the Red River Settlement and I have quite a few cousins contacted that are from this line - but I am just not sure , been that dead end for sooooooo long!
The "Wrong William" is this profile

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Sinclair-322

that is the other guy
do you have a marriage record for him and does it name his parents?  Or a marriage contract?  Any sort of document like land grant etc that gives his specific origin?
No, and that is the hesitation - no for sure confirmation that he is the right one - seen nothing so far that solidifies this, trying to look up the lady who put this on Family Search and see what she based it on - and maybe if I see the image - going to the big Library at UW Madison next week I hope so maybe I can get the confidence from some more solid documentation
Is DNA telling you anything?

1 Answer

+1 vote

Navarro, here is your family & their Scrip(s)

Métis and Original White Settlers affidavits [textual record] (R190-43-X-E)

Son William-

Online MIKAN no. 1503982 (2 items)

http://collectionscanada.gc.ca/pam_archives/index.php?fuseaction=genitem.displayItem&rec_nbr=1503982&lang=eng&rec_nbr_list=1503982,1504600,1500395,1503950,1503951,1503972,1498511

Title

*Scrip affidavit for Sinclair, William; born: 1845; father: Wm. Sinclair (Métis); mother: Elizabeth Anderson (Métis); claim no: 847; scrip no: 2962 to 2969; date of issue: May 22, 1876; amount: $160 = Demande de certificat pour Sinclair, William; né(e): en 1845; père: Wm. Sinclair (Métis(se)); mère: Elizabeth Anderson (Métis(se)); no de réclamation: 847; no de certificats: 2962 à 2969; date d'émission: 22 mai, 1876; au montant de: 160$.
Image 1
http://data2.archives.ca/e/e001/e000020692.jpg
Image 2
http://data2.archives.ca/e/e001/e000020693.jpg
-----------
*Scrip affidavit for Wilson, Mary; born: August 25, 1827; husband: James Wilson; father: William Sinclair (Scot); mother: Elizabeth Anderson (Métis); claim no: 384; scrip no: 2890 to 2897; date of issue: May 22, 1876; amount: $160 = Demande de certificat pour Wilson, Mary; né(e): le 25 août, 1827; époux: James Wilson; père: William Sinclair (Ecossais(e)); mère: Elizabeth Anderson (Métis(se)); no de réclamation: 384; no de certificats: 2890 à 2897; date d'émission: 22 mai, 1876; au montant: 160$.
----------------
---------
--------
(Elizabeth Anderson?b.1802 died 1872 (parents- James Anderson Scotish, and an Indian Woman) requests of certificates -most likely  by heirs-her children and thier children & scrip claims for some or all?)
There are more here= some reading carefully of them will surely be needed as they get a lil confusing, speaking of parents, children, childrens' children etc
by Arora Anonymous G2G6 Pilot (165k points)
Thanks so much Arora!  I had begun to add some of the scrip affidavits to profiles, had Isabellas, and a few more but now adding these.

I did not know Mary had another husband, I have her married (no date) to Thomas Hourie with two children: John - born about 1847 and Elizabeth born in St Andrews, Red River in 1849.  I will look into the James Wilson husband for her, thanks again

Interesting, and I think this may be where I saw William called Métis in the scrip application for his son William - always wondered if this is why I have had so much trouble identifying his parents
Well I guess I did know, she married three times, but that gives me a big problem, as it says she married James about 1845 and both children I have attached were born in 47 and 49! Okay, who is their dad? are my dates right?  dang

I'll do some more digging see if I can find some more answerswink

Me too, three husbands ok have to get the right dates - had to fix another guy in FS but I am now on it.
Down the rabbit hole with middle husband Cuthbert Cummings, father a Scot who came over and clerked at Northwest Company in Swan River District from 1804 until 1828, named for father, mother was "Indian" Suzette
ok I'm confused CuthbertCummings middle husband of ? you lost me, too many marriages between these parents and their kids, enlighten me please. lol

Ok, I'm sure you are aquainted with these works by L.Barkwell, but just incase you haven't seen this one recently, check this one out, and do a ctr-F to search for - James Anderson, it will pop up I think 16, read it, its loaded with info that may help to sort out all of these lines and their kids, marriages etc.  these books have been known to have mistakes, and ppl have criticized the lack of sources...but the details are so pricise finding records using the info presented may make this easier when it comes to who the parents of who are.

https://www.academia.edu/38918389/Metis_Dictionary_of_Biography_Volume_A

Funny thing is - that is where I was, but on Mary Ann Sinclair's second husband's father's biography!  I know I have looked at some of these before, they are a pain to sort out, and lots of trees wrong on the web, so have to proceed with caution!

Mary Ann Sinclair (the second scrip you gave above) first married Thomas Hourie and had John about 1847, and Elizabeth about 1849 - then Cuthbert Cummings and had William in 1855 and Catherine in 1866 (this is on rootsweb and has to be confirmed) before she married James Wilson who is on her scrip -
Ok so I just did a quick search thru archives spelling Cummings, wrong on purpose, and today it brought up different results for this same Cummings spelling.  hopefully this link will take you to all the records, 2 pages, looks like at least a few if not all are related to this Cuthbert and possibly his father as well.

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/lac-bac/results/arch?form=arch_simple&lang=eng&FormName=MIKAN+Simple+Search&PageNum=1&SortSpec=score+desc&HighLightFields=title%2Cname&Language=eng&QueryParser=lac_mikan&Sources=mikan&Archives=&SearchIn_1=&SearchInText_1=Cuthbert+Commings&Operator_1=AND&SearchIn_2=&SearchInText_2=&Operator_2=AND&SearchIn_3=&SearchInText_3=&Media%5B%5D=&Level=&MaterialDateOperator=after&MaterialDate=&DigitalImages=&Source=&cainInd=&ResultCount=10

ok so the first one listed shows Cuthbert b. 1825 son of Cuthbert Cummings and Susette Cummings

Scrip affidavit for Cummings, Cuthbert; born: 1825; father: Cuthbert Cummings (Scot); mother: Susette Cummings (Métis); claim no.: 58; date of issue: May 1, 1876 = Demande de certificat pour Cummings, Cuthbert; né(e): en 1825; père: Cuthbert Cummings (Ecossais(e)); mère: Susette Cummings (Métis(se)); no de réclamation: 58; date d'émission: le 1er mai, 1876. 19uu. File.
RG15-D-II-8-a. Volume/box number1320. Copied container numberC-14926.
Textual material. [Access: Open]. Government.
Finding aid number: 15-19

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