52 Ancestors Week 18: Love and Marriage

+12 votes
426 views

From Amy Johnson Crow: Week 18

The theme for Week 18 is "Love and Marriage." There are so many ways you could approach this theme! Ancestors who got married multiple times; elopement stories; ancestors who were married a long time; or even the surname of Love!

And now I have the "Married....With Children" theme stuck in my head. And now so do you!

And yes I know it was also a Frank Sinatra song. =D

in The Tree House by Chris Ferraiolo G2G6 Pilot (774k points)
Chris, it's the Frank Sinatra song that you stuck in my head.
Well, it was used for the show's intro. =D
Chris, I'm much older than you. That sing-along Sinatra tune was on the radio when I grew up. The TV show I know nothing about. Never saw it.
Awww. It was a good show. Didn't link it in this week's blog though: https://allroadhaverhill.blogspot.com/2024/05/52-ancestors-week-18-love-and-marriage.html
I WAS alive in 1963 (and I deinitely remember the assaination of JFK) but I didn't witness any 50th anniversaries.

My mother died a day after her 25th anniversary.  None of my grandparents made it to their 50th anniversaries.

My father's maternal grandparents (Meacham-722 and Wood-16087) celebrated their 50th anniversaary in 1935. I have a picture, and my father was there, but he was only 7.

My mother's paternal grandparents ( Pilcher-98 and Mann-1781) were married 61 years, but I have no idea if they had a 50th anniversary party.  Similrly, my mother's maternal grandparents ( Brown-61525 and Leach-3459 ) were married 51 years, but I did not hear of any celebration.

16 Answers

+14 votes

I recently did a deep dive on my 1st cousin 2x removed, Alice Adeline Pavey. She had children with 3 different men and was at the center of a complex entanglement of unusual marriages which I had to create a diagram to be able to visualize.

by Rob Pavey G2G6 Pilot (212k points)
Oh Rob, that's one complicated diagram.  Thank you for taking the time to produce it.
+12 votes

I have seen on more than one occasion Ancestor A marries Ancestor B, then Ancestor A's sister marries Ancestor B's brother.  The closest connection to me that favored this arrangement was my maternal grandparents.  Charles Stielow married Mary Loock in 1912, then less than a decade later Minnie Stielow married Charles Loock, making them my grandaunt and granduncle by blood and pumping up my DNA numbers on matches to their descendants. This is grandmother with my Mom in 1915.

by Pat Miller G2G6 Pilot (224k points)
I have several of these in my family as well.  My Carter ancestors were... prolific.  And the profusion of Carters is not relegated to a single generation.  One branch lived in Alabama shortly after it became a state.  As far as I can tell, they were on a mission to single-handedly populate the state.  I truly believe that every Carter with roots in Alabama at any point in the last two hundred years is either a descendant of one man in North Carolina (or a descendant of one of their slaves).  Seriously, I think they are responsible for the state's reputation for incest.  There is one record of FOUR siblings marrying FOUR siblings from another family, and oh by the way, a fifth of them married a cousin from that other family.

And it didn't stop.

My great grandfather is of that line.  He married my great-grandmother.  No, not that one, the other one.  My father's father's father (Oscar) married my father's mother's mother (Elsie).  For the record, my father's parents were already grown.  And Elsie's sister married a Stuart.  One of Oscar's children married one of Elsie's sister's children.  And two of Elsie's children (a brother and sister) married siblings.

The only redeeming aspect of any of this is that it happened in the 1930s and 40s and everyone dispersed by the 50s.  I think the reason that small town is practically a ghost town now is because everyone born there after about 1940 had a healthy suspicion that they were related to everyone else who was born there.

That's quite a list, Jennifer.  Inbreeding is dangerous.  There's the famous case of the Habsburgs, so inbred that it produced the unusual appearance of King Charles II of Spain and the extinction of their dynasty.  http://WikiTree.com/wiki/Habsburg-60

The thing is, there's no actual inbreeding that I've found.  I keep expecting it but it's not there.  They do this multiple marriage thing, then head on west and do it again a generation later with another large family.  Granted, I haven't traced all the Alabama lines to the present but there's nothing obvious.  The danger comes in with the fact that a 'third cousin' can suddenly act like a 'second cousin', and if you get a couple of those the line can start to recombine.
+11 votes

Upon reflection, I feel a need to decouple love and marriage because it seems that the most important ingredient of marriage is commitment.  That seems to be why some couples in my family re-married after a divorce.

As usual, the Bible seems to have the best handle on love (as well as on marriage), where the Greek identifies differing types of love ranging from eros (ἔρως), lust or sexual desire, to philia (φιλία), a platonic spiritual connection that grows between friends and family over time. Both are vital in a lasting romantic relationship. A variant on philiastorge (στοργή) relates to familial love like the parents' unconditional care for a child.

Then there is self-love or philautia (φιλαυτία), which Aristotle posited is a condition for loving others. Healthy philautia is seen in self-esteem based on self-forgiveness that is not dependent upon status or competition. But it can turn unhealthy if one loves oneself more than others.

The highest form of love is agape (ἀγάπη), unconditional love which requires nothing in return.  Alas, agape is seemingly missing from most of Western society today and without agape society cannot function because as a species we are dependent upon one another.  Fortunately, practicing agape love can result in a cycle of not only others reciprocating it but also of increasing philautia self-love.

There are some other Greek root words for love as well, including pragma (πράγμα), a mature love based on duty and shared goals, and its opposite ludus (Παιχνίδια), a carefree, flirtatious, uncommitted, and playful love focused on fun and living in the moment.  Unfortunately, there is also the obsessive love known as mania (μανία) that can be manifest through jealousy, possessiveness, or emotional instability.

Building my family tree brought home just what we as a society are missing in terms of healthy love and family.  I count myself fortunate to have spent my 9th grade living with my grandparents who seem to have been the last American generation to experience family based on commitment.  Perhaps it was the hedonism after WWII that ultimately changed life.  But Selma (1884-1971) and Matthew (1885-1962) both manifested the quiet and unassuming philia, storge, philautia, and agape love that came from accepting both themselves and their circumstances through devotion to family.  I was too young and self-involved (philautia) at the time to appreciate what they had and too full of eros and ludus to find it myself in later life.

by Ray Sarlin G2G6 Pilot (105k points)
edited by Ray Sarlin
+10 votes
In 1913, my great-grandmother married a man who was 35 years older than her.  She was 26 and he had seven children from his previous marriage aged 21 to 36.  Her step-children called her Dumplin', short for Aunt Dumplin' which was actually a reference to her famous chicken and dumplings.  They had fun with the joke, especially when it shocked other people that her 'children' could be so disrespectful.
by Jennifer Carter G2G1 (1.3k points)
+13 votes
How about having 3 anniversaries on the same date?

11 May 1970, first date, 54th anniversary this year

11 May 1987, started living together, 37th anniversary this year

11 May 2000, got married, 24th anniversary this year

Between 1976 and 1984 both people were married to other people and then divorced.

Yes, this is me and my high school sweetheart!
by M Ross G2G6 Pilot (747k points)
May 11 is a good date to get married.  My husband and I married May 11, 1996.
+11 votes

My paternal grandmother, Meena (Meacham-526) (her real name was Lillian Florence, but she was always known as Meena, short for Wilhelmina, because, as a child, she was thought to resemble (then) Princess (later Queen) Wilhelmina of the Netherlands) was married 3 times, and had at least one long-term extramarital relationship.

In 1908, as a piano student at the Royal Academy of Music in London, she married the musician, and collector of Irish folk songs, Herbert Hughes. Later that year they had a son, Patrick (later known as Spike) Hughes. But by 1911 they were living separately.

By 1914 she was living with my grandfather, an Egyptologist, Battiscombe (known as Jack) Gunn. But she was not divorced from Herbert until 1922, when he wanted to re-marry, and she didn't marry Jack until about 1926.  Their marriage was registered in Beirut, Lebanon. My father, Iain, was born, in Cairo, Egypt, in 1928.

Dyring WW II my father was evacuated to the US to stay with some family friends, until the dangr of bombing in England was thought to be passed.  When he returned to England he was surprised to dicover that his parents had divorced, and his mother had married Alex Grey-Carke, a neurologist 30 years younger than her (younger than her first son, Pat).  Nobody had told him anything about it, and I have a Christmas letter (dated after the divorce and Meena's remarraige) that Meena and Jack sent, and signed jointly, as if nothing had changed.

Alex died a few years later, in 1944, of meningitis, acquired during his survival of the sinking of H.M.S Courageous, which was torpedoed by a German U-Boat on 17 September 1939.

I never knew any of her husbands (they all died before I was born), but I knew Meena quite well.

One of my high school colleagues who knew her said Meena was the "first liberated woman I have met".

(Added 3 hours later)

In addition to  her marraiges, she had a long lasting (over 3 decades) reationship with the brilliant (but now sexually notorious) sculptor and font creator (e.g. Gill Sans) Eric Gill ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Gill ). He was one of the few people who called her Lillian instead of Meena.  In 1907 (when Gill was married, but Meena was not yet married to Herbert), they spent a "romantic tryst" over the long Easter weekend, in Paris and Chartres, attending the Paris opera, visiting Chartres cathederal, and reading Nietsche and Theosophical papers.

Their relationship continued, with varying  degrees of  intimancy, until Gill's death from lung cancer in 1940.  Meena's first son, Pat, fondly remembers (in his autobiography) spending summers with Meena and Jack  in a rented cottage in Ditchling, where Gill had what would now be called an artistic commune, from 1918 to 1924.

Meena's sister, Wendy Wood, in her autobigrapy, remembers baysitting Eric Gil's children during the early 20th century.

Gill also dedicated a phallic sculpture to Lillian (decades after their first encounter in 1907).

by Janet Gunn G2G6 Pilot (160k points)
edited by Janet Gunn
My maternal great-grandmother became a certified piano teacher at the Royal Academy of Music in 1901.  I wonder if she and Meena ever crossed paths.
I  don't know if their paths crossed, but I don't think Meena was in London in 1901.

She was born in 1886, in Maidstone Kent, and was listed in the 1891 census. About 1984 they moved to Cape Town (South Africa) where her father was a brewery manager.  I have not been able to find her in the 1901 census, so I expect she was still in South Africa.

Also, in 1901 she would have been 15, which is a little young to be living alone in London, with all her immediate family 6,000 miles away.  Was your great grandmother involved with the Fabian Society, or Theosophy? If so thier paths might have crossed there.

But Meena's first husband, Herbert Hughes, graduated from the Royal College of Music in 1901, so your great grandmother might have crossed paths with him.
I'm not sure she was even in London for long; perhaps just a visit and the testing.  She lived in Beyrout, and her whole family was there, and she was back there in 1902 and later.
+12 votes

This is a 1917 newspaper clipping from my paternal grandmother’s scrapbook. It seems that my grandfather was concerned that the weather might be a bad omen for their wedding day, but the pastor told my grandfather that is was raining cats and dogs on his wedding day, and he was happily married. 

I could have a better copy of this, since a clearer article is on line now, but I like this one that my grandmother saved. 

.

by Alexis Nelson G2G6 Pilot (857k points)
What a great story, Alexis. Local papers offer a wonderful snapshot into the lives of our ancestors.  Thanks for sharing.
+9 votes

I went into the unconnected name list for "Lieb" (which means dear, beloved, etc.). I found Carrie (Lieb) Westall. Her daughter-in-law Goldie (Isom) Westall only needed a profile for her father to connect her to her grandfather Spencer Isom.

by Jelena Eckstädt G2G Astronaut (1.5m points)
+10 votes
love and marriage Frank Sinatra song yes
by Anne Fiordalisi G2G6 Mach 6 (62.9k points)
+10 votes
I never knew until I started to do my family history that my parents eloped from Cleveland to Indiana to get married. Yvette Marie Louise Rouquier 1932-1998 and Arthur Fiordalisi 1928-2015 were married on 16 Oct 1950. My mom almost straight out of high school and dad in his last years at Kent State. I think they met from mutual friends. They both went to Cleveland Heights High. He was their star running back. After school she was modeling. I guess their parents thought they were young to get married. They were perfect match the star football player and the model. Soon in 1951 i was born then my sister and brother. Their marriage lasted until 1968.
by Anne Fiordalisi G2G6 Mach 6 (62.9k points)

Hi, Anne.  This sounds like the American dream. My parents met when my mom (who had graduated summa cum laude in Math and Physics but then had to go to secretarial college so that she could get a job) was a secretary in Seattle who also tutored in math and physics.  My dad's fraternity hired her to tutor him in math and drag him across the line to a degree in Forestry.  Nothing American dreamy about that, it was pre-WWII American reality.smiley

+7 votes
Damn you.... it's stuck in my head now, even though I grew up on that show. :P
by J Head G2G6 Mach 2 (20.1k points)
+9 votes

All 3 of my grandmothers were married at least 3 times. 

My Grandma Greenleaf was married 3 times.  She divorced her first husband William Fauls soon after the death of their daughter in 1930.  She outlived her second husband Chauncey Brafford (my grandfather) and her third husband Henry Greenleaf.

My Grandma Frye was married 4 times.  We do not know much about her 1st and 2nd husbands Mr. Ford and Perry Hensley.  If it wasn't for grandma pointing at a man on the road construction crew and telling my mom "That's my first husband, (mom doesn't remember his first name) Ford", we would have only known about 3 marriages. Not sure what happened with her second husband, Perry Hensley. She divorced her third husband Matt Fry to marry his cousin, Robert Frye (my grandpa).

Ellen Lawson was my dad's birth mother. Her first husband, Paris Ausmus, was killed by his brother over another woman (according to family lore).  If I had not stumbled upon the marriage certificate with her second husband, Foy Sweatt, my cousin (her grandkids) would never have known about it.  She outlived her third husband--my cousins only remember him.

I guess I'm running a little behind, I've only had one husband.  I'm in no hurry to have any more.

by Judith Fry G2G6 Mach 8 (80.6k points)
+8 votes

This is an article I came across some time ago while I was searching my Craven side. All for the love of marriage! 

MAN MARRIES SIX SISTER

STRANGE STORY OF MAN WHO MAN MARRIES SIX SISTERS MARRIED SIX MEMBERS OF MONTANA FAMILY. 

Mount Gllead, Ohio, Dec. 15 — After marrying five sisters, all of whom died or were killed, James Craven, of this city, has wedded the sixth and remaining sister of the Lamprecht family. Craven met the family when he went to Montana, 30 years ago. The girls had always lived there and never caught a glimpse of civilization, Craven established a trading post and married Nera Lamprecht.

They lived happily until a Jealous half-breed Indian, who had wished to marry Nora, shot the woman through a window of the cabin. Four years Inter he married Marie Lamprecht, who was also killed by the same In dian. Then he married Effle, a third sister, and she also was killed by the Indian. Craven, somewhat discouraged, returned to Ohio, but found he could not be contented. Ho returned and married Helen, aged 28.

After the wedding, he heard the Indian was still in the neighborhood. He lay in wait and shot the redskin. Then his wife was taken ill and died. Hertha came to his home to care for his little boy and he married her. She was thrown from a horse and killed.

Craven went home to Ohio, only to find he could not get along without a Lamprecht for a wife. He prevailed upon Lena, the remaining sister, to come here to marry him. there was some attraction, I can’t tell what, about that family of Lamprecht girls that I could never see In any other," said Craven after the ceremony.

Source: The Missoulan, Missoula, Montana  Sunday, December 16, 1906. Page 8.

by Sheryl Craven G2G6 (8.8k points)
edited by Sheryl Craven

That is a wild and crazy story!  laugh

I thought so too….it’s too funny!
+7 votes

Multiple marriages and attempted elopement by my 3rd ggrUncle Philip Anthony Corri/Arthur Clifton

Philip Anthony Corri Corri-2 born in Edinburgh, Scotland ca.1784 to Italian composer Domenico Corri and Franchesca Bacchelli.

Married Sept 1798 St Pancras London to Augusta Elizabeth Albert. They had four children born between 1800 and 1805

Dec 1811 Philip had another child with his ‘wife’ Caroline Sophia (no maiden name or marriage record found)

1812, was about to elope to New York with one of his young music students when apprehended by the police and the girl's father. The young girl, according to newspaper reports, put up a great struggle before being reunited with her family.

Philip Corri left for New York the next day. First, being in New York then Philadelphia before settling in Baltimore.

Baptised on 31 Dec 1817 when he changed his name to Arthur Clifton and married Alphonsa Elizabeth Ringgold next day, 1st Jan 1818. Philip and Alphonsa had at least four children together between 1826 and 1830. It is reported that Alphonsa was a Quaker woman.

During the 1820s, Corri/Clifton was well established in Baltimore as a composer, pedagogue, church organist, performer, music publisher, and dry-goods merchant. He was organist for the First Presbyterian and First Independent Churches during this time, director of the Anacreontic Society, and maintained an active involvement with the Baltimore Theater. Two new teaching methods (one each for piano and voice) would appear, as well as a psalm book, and a steady stream of songs for voice and piano. His largest American work, the opera The Enterprise, was produced at the theater in May of 1822. Several solo piano works were also published during these years, although considerably fewer in number and smaller in scale than those from his London years.

In June 17th 1822 an advertisement appeared in a London newspaper ‘from solicitor Mr Harmer offering a reward of 100 pounds to anyone giving information of his present abode. (believing he had returned to England). It stated it was not for any hostile purpose.

Notes: birth date is questionable as he would have been 14 years old when first married. PHILIP ANTHONY CORRI AND ARTHUR CLIFTON by Frank J Metcalf in Journal of the Presbyterian Historical Society (1901-1930), Vol. 11, No. 7 (April, 1923), pp. 268-272 (5 pages)on Jstor

by Patrick Holland G2G6 Mach 5 (56.0k points)
edited by Patrick Holland
+7 votes

My great-grandfather's parents were William and Phebe (Mosher) Randall. When they were children, my grandfather and his sister visited their grandparents on their farm in Michigan and relayed very fond memories of these times to me. While their grandfather was a bit crotchety, their grandmother was "the sweetest women in the world". 

I had been doing genealogy for many years and had thoroughly traced both William and Phebe's family histories, when I received a puzzling email from a gentleman informing me that Phebe Mosher could not possibly be my great-great-grandmother, Phebe (Mosher) Randall (mother of the three Randall children), as Phebe Mosher was actually his great-great-grandmother, Phebe (Mosher) VanNortrick (mother of the three VanNortick children).

How could this be? I had birth, death, and census records to back my claim, along with a marriage certificate identifying my Phebe's parents as Orison and Sophronia Mosher. But he also had birth, death, and census records to back his claim, along with a marriage certificate identifying his Phebe's parents as Orison and Sophronia Mosher!  Could there have been two Phebe Moshers living in the same place with parents named Orison and Sophronia? Not likely.

Thanks to some wonderful clerks at the Wexford and Eaton County Courthouses, here's what we ultimately discovered: Phebe Mosher did marry William Randall and was the mother of his three children, including my great-grandfather. The marriage was apparently an unhappy one and, according to court records, at some point she walked out on her family, leaving William with three young children to raise. She then married Almarion VanNortrick, and began a new family, before dying of tuberculosis, leaving Almarion with three young children to raise. It turns out that Phebe Mosher actually was both Phebe Randall and Phebe VanNortrick.

But wait, how then do we explain my grandfather and his sister meeting their Grandmother Phebe decades after she had supposedly passed away? And how do we explain the death certificate for Phebe Randall I had in my possession? It turns out that William Randall remarried to a woman named Phebe Gorham. Thus, the woman my grandfather and his sister met was not their grandmother at all, but their step-grandmother who just happened to share an identical name with her predecessor. Although my great-grandfather would have been very well aware of this fact, he chose never to share it with his children.  

Lesson learned: Things are not always what they seem on the surface. 

by David Randall G2G6 Pilot (361k points)
What an amazing story, David.  It certainly illustrates why genealogy is so fascinating to so many people.  You need to be a detective and collaboration helps.  Thanks for sharing.
+7 votes
There is a family story that my great-grandfather, a relatively new Civil Engineer, went to Egypt to check out the newly built Aswan Dam, in 1902.  His father, not wanting him to marry yet another cousin into the family, asked him to go to Beyrout and visit his old shipmate, who was retired there with his family.  While in Syria, he married the Captain's daughter, after a couple of weeks, and brought her back to England.

I have recently found though, that that is not actually true.  I'm only into the 1901 diary, and haven't seen her mentioned yet, but I think he did actually know her ahead of time.  I don't know yet if the marriage was on short notice once they met again in Beyrout, but marry they did.

Actually, I just posted on someone else's post about my gr-grandmother becoming a Royal Academy of Music piano teacher in 1901, so maybe they met in England then.  I had better get reading, the suspense is killing me!
by Brenda Milledge G2G6 Mach 3 (33.2k points)

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