52 Ancestors Week 17: War

Question

From Amy Johnson Crow: Week 17

The theme for Week 17 is "War." One would be hard pressed to find someone whose family history was not touched by war. This week, consider someone in your family tree who was affected by war, whether as a soldier or a civilian

War? What's it good for? If you ask me, absolutely nothing. 

Comments

I apologize to you and all WikiTreers for making too many posts on this topic that, as you may appreciate, is very meaningful to me.

Please keep up the 52 Ancestors Weeklies.  They're my favs.

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No apologies needed, Ray.  Your posts are interesting and insightful and you write well.

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No quarter, I mean apologies, expected or rendered. As we are incapable of learning from our past, we are doomed to repeat it time and time again. My favs, too.

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Ray, I have thoroughly enjoyed your posts.  Don't apologize, just keep them coming!

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Well, this thread exploded. Here's this week's blog: https://allroadhaverhill.blogspot.com/2024/04/52-ancestors-week-17-war.html

Answer 1

Believe it or Not: Since Its Birth The USA Has Only Had 17 Years of Peace | War History Online 

America Has Been at War 93% of the Time - Global Research

 Pretty sobering statistic.

Comments

To quote you K. What a sad and sobering statistic.

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Sobering indeed.  And perhaps even more sobering when one appreciates that per the History Guy the much-maligned DJT is the only US President since WWII to have neither initiated, been responsible for the start of, nor lost a war on his shift.  Thanks, Military-Industrial(-Intelligence) Complex a.k.a. Deep State.

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Follow the money, if you can. It seems Bi$$ions can just disappear.

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Alas K, they can't even get a rough (+/- 50%) accounting of the trifling billions "invested in" Ukraine, much less the trillions missing from the Pentagon budget (or any other departmental budget).  A wise person once called "those who promote warfare for the sake of financial gain, without regard for life" despicable.  Amen.

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Uncle LeRoy, mom's adopted brother, raised by her adoptive parents, had a terrible childhood that got no better after adoption. Joined military immediately out of High School to escape homelife. Last seen preparing for beach landing on D-Day. To live 20 years without joy, only to die in such a way, is tragic. Although, I believe, WWII was one of the necessary wars on behalf of the United States.

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K.  Your uncle LeRoy may or may not have been classified as a hero but he showed true heroism - the courage to do a difficult job at great personal risk - and paid the greatest price that any hero has ever paid.  When all is said and done, war isn't about heroism anyway; more likely, it's about duty.  LeRoy answered the call and died doing his duty as he saw it.  More cannot be expected of anyone.

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I do have his Purple Heart. Not sure what to do with it upon my demise. Probably sell and donate the money to the Lone Jack Battlefield Museum. I'm pretty sure his forefathers fought there August 16, 1862.

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K, why not gather up what memorabilia you can find on LeRoy (bio, award cert, HS grad cert, photo, letters, etc.) and donate it with the PH to the Lone Jack Historical Society or other suitable museum.  Just be aware that contemporary U.S. medals (other than the Medal of Honor) aren't worth much in monetary value (the old saying among vets was something like "yeah, that and 5 bucks (formerly 'a dime') will get me a cuppa Starbucks").

Another institution that may be interested is his high school.

Answer 2

I posted this photo a few weeks ago of my grandfather's painting of the American Civil War.  Charles Reuben Miller completed the watercolor in 1892 when he was age 22 and I wondered what made him select this subject matter.  He was a Canadian but his grandfather George Miller was from New York.  As I'm starting to break down the brick wall to my Miller ancestors I found a son of George Miller's brother John Miller, named Reuben Miller who served in the Union Army.  More research is needed but this could be the connection I'm looking for.

Comments

What a fascinating painting, Pat.  It shows the mud and filth and sweat and exhaustion and anything but glory aspects of war, which as they say is 99% boredom punctuated by 1% pure terror.  Well done.

On the topic of artillery, here is a battery of my 1st Cousin 3xR Captain William Leyde's 1st Minnesota Heavy Artillery at Chattanooga around 1864-1865.  In the expanded photo you can see the town off to the left with Lookout Mountain in the background.

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That's quite a photo, Ray and your observations about the painting are most welcome. If I'm right Reuben Miller mustered in May 1861 in Freeport, Illinois and mustered out in May 1864 in Huntsville, Alabama and would be the 1st cousin of Charles Reuben Miller's father.  Possibly stories got back to the Canadian branch of the family and Charles did the painting in 1892 with a clear understanding of what happened.

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Thanks again, Pat, for reposting one of my favorite works of art.

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Thank you, Teresa. I'm starting to uncover the family story. 

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Gorgeous Phone Pat love ❤️ it thank you so much for sharing

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Thank you, Susan.  Your frequent comments are much appreciated.

Answer 3

My mum had her 10th birthday in June 1939, she remembered the 3 September radio broadcast that war had been declared.

She, and her brother who was 5 years older (and would be called up later) plus her father and her grandmother listened to the radio in the sitting room.

She was supposed to be going to a new grammar school but school opening was delayed until sand bags had been put in place around the cloakroom windows.

The cloakrooms were partly in the cellar and were to double as an air raid shelter. When school did open in mid-September all children were required to carry a gas mask, which she hated because it was so 'ugly' and was in a cardboard box with only a piece of string to hang it around her neck.

Somewhere I have a photo of her in her new school uniform.

The town where she lived in North Staffordshire England was not in an industrial area that was likely to be bombed, but sometimes unused bombs were dropped by the Luftwaffe on their way home, she remembered vividly a house down the road that was completely destroyed by a left over bomb.

Comments

Thank you for this account, M. It helps give a better understanding of what people went through.

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This is the WWII UK gas mask for children's use, also known as the "Mickey Mouse" for obvious reasons.  It is indeed ugly, which seems fitting given the need for it and its purpose.

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I believe that is the little kid version

Answer 4

As I sit here wondering what to do with my U.S. military awards and decorations in the present political reality, I really wish that you hadn’t asked this question.

For most veterans, their war experience is a major part of what formed them and for many their peak life experience. Many years ago when stationed with SEATO in Bangkok my wife and I were staying in a poolside bungalow at a major resort and in the next bungalow over was the disgraced former Vice President of the USA, Spiro Agnew, whom we now know was targeted with Nixon by the Deep State. Our wives met and connected, introducing us. Knowing that I was an Officer and twice infantry company commander in Nam, after we had gotten to know each other a bit he shared something significant. He had been a combat company commander in WWII including in the Battle of the Bulge, and had often reflected on that experience when times got tough politically and personally and knew that no matter how bad things got for him, and they were ugly, he had been through worse and could keep on keeping on.

Comments

The soldier that answered the call are nothing less than noble. Those who promote warfare for the sake of financial gain, without regard for life, that list is long and despicable.

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I was in Washington at the time and still shudder to remember the unprecedented relentless and viciousness of the attacks.  To this day I've never seen another political figure endure what he did, and I've so, so often wondered why.

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Hi Teresa.  In the prologue to "Go quietly... or else!" (1980), Agnew wrote, "I am writing this book because I am innocent of the allegations against me which compelled me to resign from the vice-presidency of the United States in 1973. This is not to say I have not made mistakes, or failed to do things I ought to have done, or done things I ought not to have done. I am human, and my conduct has been no better and no worse than that of other officeholders in these United States....  I have made many enemies in my political life. I believe this happened mainly because I was an outspoken advocate of unpopular stands—stands which I believed were correct and still believe to be correct. I was a conservative at a time when liberals captured the imagination and sympathy of the communications media. I took a tough line when those who had the attention of the nation wanted a weak line. I staunchly and loyally supported a President who eventually left office against his will and in disgrace. I challenged some of the myths of the liberal establishment. And perhaps more dangerous politically to myself than any other factor, I antagonized the press of this nation.... I believe in a free press, not an irresponsible press, and because of that belief I was reviled and damned."

It's interesting how he blamed the media, even though in his book he covers machinations of the many hands of "government" at both federal and state levels that ground away at him, continuing after he resigned.  The unfair "press" made an easy and obvious target but the powers that pushed and pulled the strings were deeper (pun intended).

When I met him, a dozen or so years before the book was written, the events were still fresh and confusing and Nixon hadn't yet resigned.  But Agnew had been sidelined and, though personally still facing major problems, was out of the intense fire Nixon was under, and so he was trying to make sense of it all. How could a powerful elected official be ground down and effectively booted from office if he had done nothing to deserve it?

I don't know if we're better off today now that we daily witness the gloves-off attacks of our elected and unelected "ruling elites" on Mr. Trump by the progeny of the same "elites" who assassinated JFK and destroyed Nixon, two very different Presidents whom they didn't control, with RFK and Spiro Agnew as collateral damage.

Well, this story is about war of another kind, so it is a very good fit to the theme for 51 Ancestors Week 17, "War."

Answer 5

So, okay, I’ve already answered this but I have to mention my wife’s war experience, because it was far worse than mine.

I was an infantry company commander (twice) with the 173rd Airborne Brigade in the Central Highlands (II Corps). One op saw us CA’d into a remote destroyed and abandoned triangular French outpost that had guarded a mountain pass. Zigzag Viet Minh trenches came up to and under the wire but the victorious enemy was unable to completely destroy the main concrete blockhouse after the outpost fell. Knowing that I would be out of touch for ten days or so while in the mountains, I had written my wife a note in the shaking CH-47 in big loopy letters and given it to a crewman to post. It said to not worry because I couldn’t write for a week or two.

Little did I know that shortly after she received it she had a phone call telling her that “We regret to inform you that Captain … has been killed in action.” It seems that the anti war movement had seen a newspaper article mentioning me and tracked her down. Anyway, she had to be hospitalised.

Meanwhile, the war rolled blissfully on for me and my company, and I almost died by falling off a rocky cliff only to become wedged in the roots of a tree before the last several hundred foot fall onto the rocks below (thank you, God) and other boring war stuff.  

After 8 days or so we emerged from the mission and I had an urgent message to contact my wife via USO ham radio link.  I told her that “I was fine, over” (okay, a white lie but that’s another story).

A week later, I was wounded and medivaced unconscious and a chaplain and officer visited her. I woke up in a MASH-type thingy and was okay to return to combat (head wounds bleed a lot, and that night during a lengthy battle I had thought that I was just sweating heavily, duh). So my next upbeat letter arrived saying that a few stitches later I was fine and back at work.  She never was the same.

As an aside, my aunt the card-carrying CPUSA activist and head of the Seattle anti war movement was furious that they’d targeted my wife. She later told me that they’d disciplined the miscreants for going off the reservation, not that they’d done anything wrong but that I was blood.

As a further aside, I stepped in it when I got home in a typical dumb jock move. We had been discussing when to have children and had put it off for my overseas trip. After our tearful reunion I announced that I was ready to make kids. Big oops.

Comments

Thank you for your story Captain Sarlin.

Im much more impressed by your story than any Nam movie I watched.

You and your wife are both heroes.

God bless you both

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Thanks, Richard, but if anyone is a hero it's her because she never signed up for what she was put through while I did.

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Just a little note to ask if chicken wing and butter knife means anything to you?

My brother, Bob, was in the 173rd, 66-68.

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For me, this is your best story yet, Ray.  Thanks so much.  And my heartfelt condolences to your wife.  I've been there.

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Hi Donna, welcome home to your bro Bob.  I was a year later.

Regarding your question, what do YOU think?

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Hahaha, it’s there on the right. All these years since he told me that’s what they called it and it still makes me chuckle.

Thanks for your service, Ray, and welcome home to you, also.

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I used to jump with a guy who was banned from the drop zone who was an Airborne Ranger. It seems the DZ operator didn't appreciate his HALO practice jumps as a civilian. He reupped where his need for an adrenaline rush was fully appreciated.

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Hi K.  Adrenaline rush, hmm.  Well, Rangers lead the way (as a Christian Ranger, I doubly appreciate that motto).  I always figured that marriage was how ex-soldiers got their adrenaline rush off the battlefield.

Answer 6

My cousin, Wat Bowie, was a notorious Confederate spy.  I wrote about him here: https://annesgenealogyadventures.blogspot.com/2024/03/52-ancestors-2024-week-17-war-cousin.html

Comments

Nice write up on Cousin Wat. Our Cousin Wat was probably more suspect than actually notorious. Much the same as his brother Col Henry Brune Bowie was deemed a spy. He joined the Confederate Army at 15 in a sharpshooter unit. COL Henry Brune Bowie (1845-1908) - Find a Grave Memorial Spies and anyone tagged as an outlaw were executed.

Mary Surratt's involvement in the conspiracy to kill Lincoln, was probably limited to being the mother of a friend of J W Boothe, who fled go Canada.

Answer 7

This week I went into the category of "Abraham Lincoln National Cemetery, Elwood, Illinois" to find unconnected profiles there. And I found the profile of Weldon Lorraine Dotson, who is the father of a WikiTree-user. In WikiTree's database I found Weldon's great-uncle David, who is connected to his father and the Big Tree. So I eventually connected Weldon with his 2xggfather.

Answer 8

My uncle, [[Lancaster-5337|John Franklin Lancaster Jr (1917-1980)]], was at the Battle of Monte Cassino in Italy.

He had been sent back to their encampment for, if I’m not mistaken, more ammo. While there he decided to stop and have a cup of coffee. While standing there drinking his cup of Joe and shoooting the breeze a shell landed between his feet.

Uncle John ended up losing one leg above the knee and one leg below. He always said it was wrong place, wrong time and he shouldn’t have stopped.

The man could do almost anything. He drove a car without hand controls. He roofed his own house. If he ever pitied himself he never showed it. He wasn’t my favorite uncle but I admire the strength and resilience he showed.

Answer 9

My Grandpa Frye and my Grandpa Brafford, neither one had to go to war during WWII.  They were BOTH working at Gar Wood, Industries in Detroit, Michigan, making tank engines. The Brafford's were from WV and had been living in Detroit since 1927.  The Frye's were from KY and had only moved up to Detroit in 1941 looking for work.

Grandpa Brafford had one brother, Claude, that was in the Navy during the war.

Grandpa Frye had one brother-in-law, Harmie Nix, that came back from the war with Shell Shock or what would now be PTSD.  Fireworks or gun shots would make him go berserk. They lived up in the mountains away from people so he would not be affected as much by loud noises.

Answer 10

My uncle Vincent Fiordalisi-(1923-1944). The uncle I never got to meet since he died saving a French village at Etel, Miorbihan, Brittany, France, He won the Silver Star.  He enlisted on 29 March 1943 at Camp Perry Lacarne, Ohio before deploying over seas. He was part of the  304 Regiment 94th Division Infantry. This is the outfit later on was at the Battle of the Bulge. There is a plaque on Ethel's Village wall commemorating the heroic men who staved they village from the Germans.  Also his brother Joseph Fiordalisi also joined the Army afterwards for 2 years stateside as a clerk. My father Arthur Fiordalisi tried to join but he was too young to join. Now my nephew is in the Marines as a JAG for 3 years. He is leaving the Marines this July. Many more in my family tree served in many wars. GOD BLESS THEM ALL.

Comments

Hi Anne. After a brief stay in England, the 94th Infantry Division landed near Utah Beach in early September 1944. After several days they were trucked to Brittany to relieve Patton's 6th Armored Division, which was keeping some 60,000 German troops and Kriegsmarine (Naval Troops) besieged in the Channel ports and submarine bases of Lorient and St. Nazaire after being bypassed by the allies after D-Day. In an action historians call "the forgotten front" the 94th fought the trapped Germans from 10 September 1944 to 10 December 1944, mostly through reconnaissance and combat patrols rather than large-scale assaults. Étel which your uncle liberated is about 15 miles SE of Lorient.  I would imagine that the 104 days that Vincent fought with his Antitank Company of the 301st Infantry Regiment, 94th Div would have been intense.  If you haven't seen it, there's an interesting memoir by a soldier who may have known your uncle at the Battle of the Bulge Memories website.  That battle started on 16 December, 8 days after your uncle died.  Thank you so much for sharing his story.

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tyvm for this great info. His division has its own website also I read later on.

Answer 11

These seven service men were shot down 25 Jun 1944, Royal Canadian Air Force, Division 44 (R.A.F.) Sqdn, in France and were buried together in a small cemetery in Seine-Maritime, Haute-Normandie, France.

Pilot Officer Douglas Earl Aiken

Air Gunner Sergeant John Hare

Flight Engineer Sergeant Horace Arnold Lewarne

Air Gunner Sergeant Johnny Lewis

Wireless Operator Air Gunner Flight Sergeant Frank Sidney Rawson

Navigator Warrant Officer II Robert Alexander Riddoch

Air Bomber Pilot Officer Simmons-16424. This is Nevius-179 Uncle.

https://www.findagrave.com/cemetery/2389508/criquetot-sur-longueville-churchyard

Answer 12

I would say it starts with me, being a nurse during the time of 83-86 and dealing with multiple terrorist actrions. Then I have 3 half-brothers that served in WW II as well as my father.  On my mother's side as well as my father's side I have relatives that served in WW II, WW I, Korea, Vietnam, Mexican/American War, Fought Indians, Civil War, and American Revolution. Some of their histories are noted on their individual profiles.

Comments

Thank you for your service, Alice.  Like yours, my mom's family has fought in pretty much every war the USA has had and, like my dad's side, fought all the way back to being Vikings in AD 1750 per DNA of 3 Viking skeletons (1 linked by Y-DNA to Dad and 2 by mt-DNA to Mom) buried in Viking Ships in Estonia.  I was surprised to find a relative who crossed the border in search of Pancho Villa.  Somehow, the family never talked about war much.

Answer 13

I've often wondered why I joined the German Air Force as a young man when all my friends in youth group were conscientious objectors. Enter genealogy and me investigating my Graul ancestors (my mother's LNAB): Her father Paul was killed in WWII, his father Paul died of wounds received in WWI, his uncle Otto died in WWI, their grandfather Christian Gottfried was a musketeer at the siege of Magdeburg in 1806, their great grandfather Thilo served in the Anhalt army against the French / Napoleonic invasion in the 1790s ... 

Maybe, it's part of the Graul genes to choose becoming a soldier - in which case, more of our decisions may be genetic than we give it credit for. 

Comments

Hallo Oliver. Ich diente bei der 3. Infanteriedivision der US-Armee in Aschaffenburg und nahm oft an Aktivitäten des deutschen Panzerbataillons 363 teil. Einmal erzählten der Kommandeur meines Panzerbataillons und der Kommandant der 363 von ihren Erinnerungen an die Ardennenoffensive, in der beide gekämpft hatten; Obwohl sie auf entgegengesetzten Seiten standen, waren ihre Erfahrungen die gleichen. Wie Sie reicht auch das militärische Erbe meiner Familie Jahrhunderte zurück.

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Thanks, Ray, for your long and continued endeavor of linking genealogy and military history. More power to you!

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Ray: Ich war erst bei der 2. Technischen Schule der Luftwaffe in Faßberg und dann in der integrierten Verwendung im NATO Centre for Air Defense of Middle Europe auf der belgisch-niederländischen Grenze, wo ich täglicher Grenzgänger von Tongeren BE nach Maastricht NL war.

Im Januar 1991 wurde ich als Reservist des Jagdbombergeschwaders 34 in Husum noch mal für eine Mobilmachungsverwendungsübung reaktiviert, kam aber, im Gegensatz zu 50% meiner Kameraden, nicht zum Einsatz an der türkisch-irakischen Grenze. Gott sei Dank!

Traumata blieben mir dennoch nicht erspart. Das im September 2013 von Al Shabaab attackierte Westgate Einkaufszentrum in Nairobi war eins der Zentren, in denen wir einkauften, und die Detonationen während der dreitägigen Belagerung waren bis in unser Wohnzimmer zu hören ...

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Oliver: Vielen Dank für Ihren Service. Jeder Krieg ist die Hölle, aber der Anschlag auf die Nairobi Mall war ein Gräuel! Ich habe auch Grenzdienst geleistet, war aber an der tschechoslowakischen Grenze, als der Warschauer Pakt 1968 einmarschierte, um den "Prager Frühling" niederzuschlagen. Damals war ich Aufklärungszugführer in der 3. Infanteriedivision. Ich hatte gerade mehrere Wochen damit verbracht, alle möglichen Routen zur Grenze von unserer Initial Deployment Position (IDP) aus zu evaluieren. Einige der Brücken konnten unsere M-60A1-Panzer nicht aufnehmen, also wurden die Routen geändert. An der Grenze schirmte mein Zug (3 Panzer plus Infanterie) eine 25 km breite Front ab. Wir hatten es mit einem sowjetischen Panzerkorps zu tun. Es war sehr angespannt. Ich habe immer gescherzt, dass wir die Sowjets erschreckt haben, damit sie Westdeutschland nicht angreifen.

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Ray: Oh wow, vielen Dank für Ihren Beitrag zur Verteidigung meines Heimatlandes! Wir haben immer gescherzt, dass die Bundeswehr dazu da sei, die Sowjets ein paar Stunden aufzuhalten, bis richtiges Militär kommt ...

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Ha ha.  Fürs Protokoll: Von uns an der Front wurde erwartet, dass wir maximal 24 Stunden überleben würden. Der Grund, warum mein Zug eine so große Front abschirmte, war, dass mein Bataillonskommandeur sein 54-Panzer-Bataillon und das angeschlossene mechanisierte Infanteriebataillon in einer starken Position versteckt hatte, von der er erwartete, dass die sowjetische erste und zweite Welle sie umgehen würde. Wenn sie es täten, würde er "Moskau angreifen". Er erwartete, dass mein Zug den Feind glauben machen würde, dass die beiden Bataillone vernichtet wurden, als sie uns töteten. Mein Oberst war ein strategisches Genie und hatte großes Vertrauen in mich und meine Männer. Meine Aufgabe war es, unsere Fahrzeuge so lange wie möglich auf den Feind feuern zu lassen, während wir uns bewegten, um ihn über unsere Größe zu verwirren.

Answer 14

War does not only affect veterans; it devastates family for generations. Asbestos and Agent Orange has caused tremendous physical cancer tragedies, and post traumatic trauma continues to cause psychological problems that we are just beginning to study the effects. I feel my own family is still trying to recover from World War II and Vietnam.

This is a narrative from June 1945 showing the loss of my father M Sgt. Clare A. Lovelace and 3 others as they were returning in a B-29 from a bombing over Japan on 29 May 1945. 

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Lovelace-589

Comments

Amen, Alexis.  In my experience we don't ever get over the trauma, we just learn to live with it.

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Ray, thank you for your comment. That is terrible your wife received that incorrect information about you. I certainly feel for her; I was only covered in a rash while my husband flew a recuse helicopter.

I hope you will write more about your service in Vietnam.

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And amen, Ray - trauma becomes part of the traumatized person's biography, and even if they learn to live with it, i.e. anchoring it in its proper point of biographical time, it still affects us to the end of our lives. My mother had to live with having grown up without a father, and my paternal grandmother never got over the death of her favorite brother in WWII until her own death in 2007.

Answer 15

My grandfather was killed in action during World War II, just a few months before my father's birth. He was a gunner for a B-24 in the US Army Air Force. His crew's plane was shot down over then-Czechoslovakia, killing all but one crew member. Nearby villagers went through the wreckage and buried the bodies. My grandmother corresponded with some of those villagers, as well as with the families of Daddy Thad's crew. Years later, after my grandmother died, one of the villagers found my genealogy blog, where I'd posted pictures and such of the crew, and told me that there's now a museum dedicated to that battle. A few days ago, I discovered an email in an old email account containing pictures of a bracelet that was recently recovered from the crash site, given by my grandmother to Daddy Thad after the birth of their first child (my uncle) and before he left for that final mission. His name and serial number were engraved on one side, and her name and the nickname of their eldest son on the other. It was a remarkable find and an emotional moment for my family, knowing that some part of him was found an ocean away.

Comments

Truly "a remarkable find."  Thank you for sharing.