Confederate Soldiers Buried in Northern Soil

Question

Hi Wikitreers,

In my research for a northern Union soldier in the graveyard memorials I happened to come across a soldier of the South (a Confederate) by the the name of John W. Murray born in the year 1831 in North Carolina. He died December 1, 1864 (aged 32–33) at Elmira, Chemung County, New York, USA; see his FindAGrave

He is buried at Woodlawn National Cemetery Elmira, Chemung County, New York, USA

Inscription: Co.I, 8 N.C. Reg., C.S.A.

See his NPS

How does a son of the South a soldier of the CSA come to be buried so far North? 

I don’t believe he has a Wikitree profile?

Any collaboration or insight is appreciated 

Note: Was there a Union hospital at Elmira and did a Union soldier take him there ? 

It appears his widow https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/35765748/elizabeth-perry remarried a Benjamin Perry 

Edit: profile created to aid in the research of this veteran

This veteran suffered much it appears as a P.O.W. eventually succumbing to chronic diarrhea leaving his wife and children who he likely had dreams and hopes of life with. What were his last thoughts in a Union Camp? Which camp was he a P.O.W  and what hospital did he pass away? Did his wife ever see him again as he left to war? Did she even know he was buried in a northern cemetery?

Perhaps this is the place he spent as a P.O.W  

Elmira Prisoner of War Camp 

I wonder if President Lincoln knew of “Helmira” ?

Comments

Lincoln and Grant created 'Helmira', Camp Douglas and Andersonville. As the war dragged on, they determined the one resource the South could not compete with was manpower. As prisoner exchange and parole was suspended, the POW camps quickly become overcrowded and resembled death camps.

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Please note Lincoln & Grant did not create Andersonville!  That was a Southern prison camp where many Union soldiers died.

There were atrocious prison camps on both sides, in war nobody's hands are clean.

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I was referring to the conditions of overcrowding and lack of necessities due to the termination of the prisoner exchange and parole system that occurred late in the war.

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Quote:

How does a son of the South a soldier of the CSA come to be buried so far North? 

I researched a company of a Mississippi Regiment and obtained a list of the original men who enlisted.  One day, someone sent me a current newspaper clipping.  It said this fellow from New York moved to Mississippi and married a Southern belle.  He lived in the county where this company enlisted.  He served in the company and sometime after the War, he returned to New York, where he was buried.   

I could not make out any reason to explain why he did this?  I didn't research if his wife may have died during the war.  

Answer 1

There is a J.W. Murray, Co. I, 8th North Carolina, that died on December 1, 1864, at the Elmira Prisoner of War Camp.

https://www.familysearch.org/library/books/viewer/603970/?offset=0#page=12&viewer=picture&o=download&n=0&q=

P.S. There are a bunch of rolls for the prisoners at that camp here but the viewing quality is mixed and there is no index.

https://archive.org/details/selectedrecordso0065unit/page/n188/mode/1up?view=theater&q=Murray

Comments

That’s him grave #1013 Murray, J.W. Company I, 8th N.C. December 1, 1864

There is ancestry records in with his find3 profile of a James Murphy same Regt Co. K so maybe he also served in company K.

He was a P.O.W at “Helmira”

This is the first I’ve researched of a veteran of this prisoner of war camp but the list of others shows deaths that could of been prevented such as diarrhea, pneumonia, etc.

The project has done different challenges such as Shiloh and I believe Andersonville but maybe Elmira “Helmira” would be a good choice for a challenge.

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The U.S., Civil War Soldier Records and Profiles, 1861-1865, at ancestry.com has the following information:

John W. Murray - age 32 at enlistment - enlisted on March 7, 1863, in Alamance County, N.C. - muster in Co. I, 8th North Caolina - imprisoned on July 1, 1864 at Cold Harbor - mustered out at Elmira - died of disease as a prisoner of war

It also has the following slightly cryptic record:

1863-08-23 Deserted; 1863-10-26 in Arrest, Through 2/28/1864, 1863-10-26, Returned; 1864-7-12, Transferred (Elmira); 1865-06-01, Returned; Estimated Date, 1865-06-03, Transferred (Point Lookout, MD), estimated day.

https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/153098:1555?tid=&pid=&queryId=67a07a55-834c-4baa-ab7a-c7052703644a&_phsrc=nxM885&_phstart=successSource

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I had a hunch it was at the Battle of Cold Harbor

This has some good detail and insight!

Edit: I have four direct ancestors who all served in the New York regiments and no Confederates in my direct line. I know the 8th N.C. and 106th New York met on the Civil War battlefields maybe that Rebel Minnie ball was the one who wounded my 3rd gg at Monocacy, but the cruelties of war never cease to amaze me!

The cruelties of one such Union general as described in sources is astounding ex., BG William Hoffman Jr. (1807 - 1884) I’m sure the South had their fare share as well. 

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There are thousands of Confederate soldiers buried in the north. Fort Delaware, Point Lookout, and Elmira prisons, for example, were sites where thousands died of smallpox, dysentery, malnutrition, etc. There are also over a thousand Confederates buried in Maryland, which contributed men to both sides, but had sympathy for the southern cause. Hundreds of the Confederate wounded from the Battle of Gettysburg died in hospitals in Baltimore, and were buried in that city.

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This is intriguing! 

I see another Confederate was met with the cruelties of Union BG William Hoffman 

See 2LT Thomas Kennedy Campbell not sure he has a Wikitree profile

Apparently Gen. William Hoffman denied Lt Thomas K Campbell's plea to go home to die with his wife and children. He died in his prison cell?

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Lincoln's brother in law, Geo Rogers Clark Todd was a Confederate States of America (CSA) surgeon during the war. He was remembered by the Union prisoners of war for his sadism and cruelty.

Taken from his Wikitree page: Todd was a profane, obscene, and brutal man. In his madness, he would pound and kick the Union officers, and caused some to be bucked and gagged for spitting on the floor. [...] One of the colored nurses (a soldier captured at Wagner) stopped to talk to me. Todd saw him and ordered the guard to have him whipped. Soon the screams of the poor fellow convinced me the order was being executed.

Wm Hoffman's sister married into the Todd family as well making him a bro n law of geo r c todd.

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@ Rbt Snow 8c1r Where is one of the few cemeteries where Confederate and Union troops are buried side by side. I will give you a hint, you probably have a relative or two buried there. Following the Battle of Lone Jack, you know, where Rooster Cogburn lost his eye, civilians were left to bury the dead. Two 80-foot trenches were dug, one for confederates, one for the union. It took three days in over 100* heat.

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Aha. Missouri. There are Probably several places. Some of the sites I’ve been to: Finn’s Point, New Jersey, Union prison guards are buried next to the obelisk that marks the mass grave of about 3,000 Confederate prisoners who died at Fort Delaware. At Appomattox, a small graveyard includes Confederate and Union soldiers. In Danville, Virginia, Union prisoners who died there are buried in Danville National Cemetery, which is right alongside Green Hill Cemetery, that has Confederate soldiers.

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The Confederate Prisoner Roster for Elmira can be found on Ancestry. It's broken down into the Paroled/Released prisoners and the Deaths. John W Murry in the fourth column. https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/60369/images/MM9.3.1_2FTH-1951-21717-43732-69?ssrc=&backlabel=Return&pId=24840

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@ Rbt   Typically confederate and union dead were not buried together.

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Thank you Victoria for the link to this list 

Answer 2

The history of the Elmira prison camp includes the story of John W Jones an escaped slave who served as Sexton of the graveyard that is now Woodlawn National Cemetery.

He buried the confederate dead with care and honor to the degree that the Daughters of the Confederacy did not repatriate them as they did others.  

There is now a museum to Mr Jones in what was his home which has been moved to a site across from the cemetery.

I have some pictures, including of the small monument the confederate ladies donated - if I can find them, it’s been 5 or 6 years.

Comments

John W Jones- God's finest work is an honorable man. One of grandma's favorite sayings designed to influence.

Answer 3

I do not know how common this is, but Confederate soldiers are also buried at Camp Butler just outside Springfield, Illinois. The Camp housed prisoners during the Civil War. My parents are buried there so I have some familiarity with the location.

As a side note, I believe, this National Cemetery is the only one that includes burials of German POW soldiers from WWII. I took a quick look on the US government web site and did not see anything about this. I seem to recall signage at the cemetery about these soldiers. I did a quick search in Find a Grave (for death year of 1945.) and German sounding names. I found an Emil Burmeister listed as "Soldat German" on his headstone buried at Camp Butler. Emil Burmeister (1923-1945) - Find a Grave Memorial.

Comments

German prisoners of war in the United States - Wikipedia

German POW's were given the royal treatment in comparison to Civil War POW's by either side. In many cases, they were treated better than civilians. Taken from the Wikipedia article: Unable to eat all their food, prisoners at first burned leftover food fearing that their rations would be reduced. When I was captured I weighed 128 pounds. After two years as an American POW weighed 185. I had gotten so fat you could no longer see my eyes.

— A German prisoner of war^[16]: 208

 

^{Black American soldiers, including Rupert Trimmingham,[30] noted that German prisoners could visit restaurants that they could not because of Jim Crow laws.}

 ^{Prisoners who died during escape attempts usually received military funerals with US government-provided German flags.}

Answer 4

Not unusual at all. Thousands of Confederate POWs died in northern prisons and were buried there. I have a great-great-grandfather buried at Camp Chase in Columbus, Ohio, and another buried in a mass grave of more than 2,400 at Finn's Point National Cemetery near Salem, New Jersey. Both were Mississippians.

Answer 5

My great-grandfather, [[Morrison-1186|John Wilson Morrison]], fought at Gettysburg before being captured at or near Wilderness, Virginia, on or about May 6, 1804. He was first sent to the POW Camp at Point Lookout, MD on May 17, 1864. He was transferred to "Helmira" on July 27, 1864. He was released on June 12, 1865, after taking the Oath of Allegiance and returned to North Carolina. 

Answer 6

The prison at Elmira was referred to as "the Andersonville of the North." It was in an area that almost a swamp and was a greatly enlarged from "Camp Chemung" that had been a Union training center early in the war.

Comments

Both camps had similar conditions, treatment and mortality rates of PoW's. If one had an advantage, it would have been less severe winters at Andersonville.

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This is something not everyone considers!

The weather conditions of the areas of these Prisoner of War “Camps”; as in the case of John Murray when he passed from typhoid in the cold northern month of December.

The cruelty of the Union General to not even allow warm clothing from the P.OW. families that was sent was inhumane; looking at it from our era of knowledge and hindsight of course.

The cruelties of the war are horrific but there is also those stories of kindness because in the end it comes down to the individual and the hearts of mankind.

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I once had an old friend (some 60 years older than me) tell me he could stop all war. Those who think war is the answer, let them fight them, not their kids and grandkids.