Notables Jan 2024 [closed]

+22 votes
1.7k views

Hear Ye, Hear Ye

If you are interested in people who are famous, notable, noted, significant, important, historic, heroic, or otherwise fascinating, then the Notables Project might be for you! 

The idea behind this post is for anyone who needs help with connecting Notables to the tree to post to this thread and ask for help, or if you want to tell us whom you have successfully connected up, or if you want to join the Notables Project and get a badge.

Besides checking out the Notables Project page, don't forget to take a look at the Notables List page, where you can find lists of Notables who have profiles which aren't yet connected to the main tree. (For ideas on way to connect unconnected people and branches, see the Hints and Tips on the Connectors Chat page.)

Notables should fulfill the criteria to have at  least one Wikipedia page in any language to qualify as a Notable. But an entry in the country's NATIONAL Who's Who or a NATIONAL Biography is also acceptable as well. 

The Notables team will decide if a Living Notable's Profile can be made Public or not. Usually that means the Notable has at least 3  Wikipedia Pages in other languages. At least two Wikipedia pages must also include the name of at least one close or nuclear family member (Specifically parents, siblings, spouse or child). if the page should also happen to list grandparents, aunts/uncles and cousins in the "other relatives" list, those would also be helpful. 

Deaths in December 2023

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_in_2023#December

closed with the note: date is now February 2024
in The Tree House by Robynne Lozier G2G Astronaut (1.3m points)
closed by Robynne Lozier

I am very confused about notable standard.  On the Notable Project Page I read "WikiTree's standard for notability is not based on whether or not an individual has a Wikipedia page, but whether they actually meet Wikipedia's requirements for having one. When unsure, feel free to ask the Project Leaders about whether someone meets our notability criteria."

But in the post above I read "Notables should fulfill the criteria to have at  least one Wikipedia page in any language to qualify as a Notable. But an entry in the country's NATIONAL Who's Who or a NATIONAL Biography is also acceptable as well."

I guess this comment is argumentative, but - which is it?

Kristina, the way I have come to understand it is - pretty much if there is already a Wikipedia page - no matter how basic, or questionable (being the parent, or step-parent of someone notable/notorious has some folk with Wikipedia pages who never did a thing themselves that was noteworthy) then they automatically qualify for WikiTree Notable status and get the sticker. 
If they qualify for a Wikipedia page, but do not yet have one, there may need to be some discussion regards whether they meet the WikiTree standards as well.
Most times, if they clearly qualify under Wikipedia's standards for Notability, there is no question about the Notables Sticker.  It's when those lines are not so clear there may need to be further assessment.

I have read that before. My issue is really that the two ʻstandardsʻ provided by the Notables Project are not the same - and they should be.
What was last edited in the opening post/
For the record the above Blurb was last updated in February 2023 and it was done as per instructions from Notable team members. I even used the exact wording I was given. From Scott and Melanie.

There was a long discussion over those changes.

https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/1531895/notables-feb-2023?show=1531895#q1531895

I am pretty sure that the actual Projects page has not been updated other than those updates that I make every month so that the G2G Connection link always goes back to the current months Notable thread. But I could be wrong.
Kristina, it is a good point, but the G2G is somewhat of a summary of the entire project coverage, which does include a number of other things, including the focus of the Notables project, the concept behind essentially what is a Wikipedia project, the foundation of why Wikipedia is utilized as an independent Notables standard, the way the rule is applied, the methodology of how we apply it to the profiles, the technical steps used to do so, and so on and so forth. To include all that information here in a small blurb above would quickly lose the majority of those who simply want to find a monthly G2G. Perhaps we should review the wording to indicate that this information is only a snippet of the whole project and to read the project page if there are questions, and while it is certainly implied above, it may not be as clear as we could get it. The team will take a look at it and see what we can come up with.

But to answer your question, we use the Wikipedia standard for Notability. Wikipedia acknowledges that formal and nationally accepted National Biographies and National Who's Who (not the cheap fake knock-offs that anyone can "pay" to have their name inserted) are also acknowledged by Wikipedia as either those they want to have profiles for, or are actively working towards. However, as mentioned above, there are always Notables that have slipped through the cracks, who meet or exceed the Wikipedia standards for Notability, and should be considered. Under those circumstances, those individuals would have to demonstrate, typically through a profile on WikiTree or an accepted article on Wikipedia, that they have all the criteria for Notability as laid out by Wikipedia. We usually do that through the creation of the profile, the presentation of it on G2G or to the leadership team, and then discussion on G2G regarding why/why not they meet/do not meet the criteria. Sometimes the missing elements can be fixed. Sometimes they cannot. But we try to openly discuss it so that one person's opinion cannot simply overrule a larger majority group who may think otherwise. However, simply saying "My Grandpa is Notable" and providing no evidence for it will never be sufficient. We have to acknowledge that the intent of WikiTree is that this could be around long after all of us are gone, and we would like the decisions on these profiles to stand the test of time. So we require evidence, at least enough biography to prove their Notability, and enough clear reasoning that someone down the road could look at the profile and say that they too agree it's Notable.

Hope that helps.

Scott, all Kristina wanted is what the blurb now says (I presume that's what Russell edited (although there is an errant extra space in there)) "Notables should fulfill the criteria to have at least one Wikipedia page in any language to qualify as a Notable. But an entry in the country's NATIONAL Who's Who or a NATIONAL Biography is also acceptable as well." instead of the usual "must have a Wikipedia page . . ." statement.

Thanks Melanie!
Sorry - I was trying to explain that above, but maybe it was a bit wordy.

The bottom line is that it's complicated, but we'll look at it. As mentioned above, there's a lot of information that is being summarized above and the use of terms like "should" are being used to indicate that in most cases, the profiles do have a Wikipedia page. However, there are exceptions. We'll look at the wording and see what we can come up with as a compromise.

45 Answers

+15 votes
I interpret the text to mean that if they have a Wikipedia page, they are notable, but just the fact that there is no Wikipedia page does not mean they are not notable. If you have doubts or questions about a particular profile, you can ask the Notable project.
by Jimmy Honey G2G6 Pilot (170k points)
I agree, Jimmy - thatʻs a good interpretation. But there should not be a difference between what the posting for the Notables  Project says and the notation on the Notables Project page which is linked in the post.

I am a trouble maker. Sorry.
No, you are not a trouble maker. It is important that we express our differences or interpretations, so I appreciate your comments. It would be nice to have a definition, albeit in this case it might be difficult to adequately define the scope. Something like this:

A notable person is someone who has made a significant impact, achieved distinction, or gained recognition in a specific field or within a particular community, region, state, nation or globally.

It is a broad definition, but I think workable. Something I adopted from the "African American Project" was to include a paragraph at the top in bold that explains why they are notable.  While the term "notable person" is versatile, explaining why you believe they are notable puts it in context with the definition above. Having that paragraph helps define their accomplishments to others.

My greatest fear is that we focus on global or national notables, that we forget about those whose accomplishments or notable recognition are just local or specific to a region or community. As we say in Arkansas, "Well, 'round these parts, a notable ain't always the one in the fancy papers or on TV. A true standout's the fella fixin' fences, helpin' neighbors, or raisin' up good young'uns with grit and heart. They're the unsung heroes, the backbone of our holler, known by every soul 'cause they lend a hand without askin'. See, a notable in these parts ain't 'bout fame; it's 'bout the kindness they sow and the lives they quietly change, stitchin' this community together, one heartfelt deed at a time."
This is true - agree 100% - but that is not the Wikipedia standard on which the project was founded. Notables must stand above their peers or at least be equal to other Notable peers in some way or another, plus have well-documented and independently provable source documentation that demonstrates their Notability - or - already have been through a related process and been given a Wikipedia page in some language somewhere. We can all say that someone we know and love is "our hero", and to us, he or she certainly is, but the project is founded on an independent standard of Wikipedia's way of qualifying Notable people, so not everyone will qualify utilizing those standards.
Or give birth to someone notorious, or marry someone who gave birth to someone notorious.
All I was asking was that the two statements agree with each other.
What I stated meets Wikipedia standards for people. To quote Wikipedia: "For people, the person who is the topic of a biographical article should be "worth of notice", or "note" - that is "remarkable" or "significant, interesting, or unusual enough to deserve attention or to be recorded" within Wikipedia as a written account of that person's life. "Notable" in the sense of being famous or popular - although not irrelevant - is secondary."

How does the definition I proposed "A notable person is someone who has made a significant impact, achieved distinction, or gained recognition in a specific field or within a particular community, region, state, nation or globally" in contradiction with Wikipedia?

My point, which I think you focused too intensely on about fears, is that in the future someone would decide unless they are "world famous" or "nationally known", they would not be eligible because nobody ever heard of them outside the area they were known. My Arkansan talk was humor, a way of saying that in small rural communities, there might be notable people not nationally known. Drawing the point that being famous or popular while not irrelevant is secondary to the first definition given by Wikipeda for people.

Last, to ensure you meet the criteria above, I stated I write a paragraph explaining how they are notable (i.e. what are they known for). Most of the time, this source is Wikipedia, which ironically many would have a problem referring to as a source, but given it is the standard, I feel compelled to include it). But I used other, such as the Arkansas Encyclopedia, as it is focused on notable Arkansans. That maybe Wikipedia will eventually get around to, but as the project stated, the fact that they do not have a Wikipedia page does not mean they are not notable. It might not have been written about yet.
My apologies, Jimmy. I wasn't meaning to disparage your summary above, however, what we've encountered in the past with summaries is that people will take that as the sole definition of what it takes to mean a Notable, and run with it to the nth degree. For example, we've encountered situations where someone has literally marked their entire family as Notable, because they revere them so much. None of them did anything, but in their eyes, they were Notable. We've had the kindly old guy down the street who "everyone" said could do "everything" for the "entire community" made Notable with no source documentation, but several anecdotal stories about some things he did. So I get a bit leery about too much summarization as it ends up misleading someone into taking that and nothing else to use as their standard, without going back to the understanding that we need more than their belief that the person is Notable for it to be clear, not just to us, but to the next person that comes along too.
+13 votes
Australian journalist and filmmaker John Pilger has died. He doesn't have a WT profile yet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Pilger
by Mark Burch G2G6 Pilot (222k points)
Thanks Judi!
+11 votes

Happy New Year to all!

Scott, I'm looking at the profile of Andre Agassi now. There is a picture on his Wikipedia page which can be used. Also, he should get the categories

"Olympian representing the United States"
"Olympic Gold medalists"

by Jelena Eckstädt G2G Astronaut (1.5m points)
Image and categories have been added. Thanks.
+10 votes

Notable producer/director Robert Wise, who won Academy Awards for his work on West Side Story and The Sound of Music, is now connected to the global tree.

by Scott Fulkerson G2G Astronaut (1.5m points)
+9 votes
Hi,

I am working on the profile for [[Lucas-5381|Cornel Lucas]] (just because I found his profile while browsing something else and I liked the name).

It's my first stab at a Notables profile and I'd welcome any constructive comments on how it's looking so far. I'm not very good at sourcing and tend to keep things very simple (see examples in Cornel's father's profile [[Lucas-14576]]). All of the sources for Cornel have so far been added by other Wikitreers.

Many thanks,

SueCD (indefatigable Fixer of Typos and Instigator of Minor Corrections)
by Sue Carlson Dunn G2G6 (6.4k points)
The profile looks good - no major concerns in any way. Nice job! The only recommendation I might have falls into style choices, and is more or less the way "I" would personally do it - not necessarily a right or wrong thing.

I would consider taking the first paragraph (beginning with "Cornell Lucas was a..." and combining it with the third paragraph (beginning with "He was the first..."), and then putting that before the biography line, in bold, as a quick way of defining to someone visiting the profile of who he is and why he is Notable. I would then take that second paragraph and embed it more into the timeline flow of the remainder of the biography to further reinforce the information that discusses some of his exhibits. Or merge paragraphs 1-2-3 together as the intro part, and leave the others with their timeline flow as the primary biography. We've been encouraged to provide on Notable profiles a sort of "leader" above the Biography line that describes the reason for their Notability, and it just looked like you were doing something similar with those first three paragraphs.

If you decide to expand on the biography - include more detail on where he lived, more on his children, more on his specific accomplishments - you could consider breaking down the biography into additional sub-headers, but it's not necessary. I like what you have here, but it would be fine to add more if you felt it needed more details.

Hope that was the type of feedback you were seeking. Suggestions only - really everything looks good and could be left "as is".
Thanks for the constructive feedback, Scott - I was thinking along the same lines regarding the first few paragraphs.

With respect to Lucas' children, I had not included more details as I noticed that, although they were mentioned by name in the original Wikipedia article referenced in his profile, the latest revision of the article only says "four children... including actress Charlotte Lucas", so I was wondering if there was a privacy issue there as I think they are all still living.

Another question - can anyone point me to a public domain image of Lucas?

Many thanks, SueCD
The image in this article:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/cornel-lucas-photographer-who-made-his-name-as-a-pioneer-of-film-portraiture-8399597.html

Is a Getty image - definitely pay to use.

Likewise, the image in this article:

https://www.theguardian.com/film/gallery/2012/nov/19/film-photography-cornel-lucas

Is one at the Guardian news site and also likely pay to use. I haven't found one that would be free or shareable without permission. You could always write one of those agencies (Getty, the Guardian) and request permission to use, and sometimes out of the blue they'll allow it. If they do, make sure that's noted on the image description (used with permission from ...).
Thanks for that, Scott. Apart from an image, I think I've done about all I can.

Just noticed that the CC7 has gone up to 51 and that Cornel Lucas is now well-connected to the bigger tree!
+11 votes
I think to clarify standards for notability, the section should be rewritten. Below is a suggestion on how you could make the process clearer.

Standards for Notability

The WikiTree Notables Project adheres to Wikipedia's notability standards across all languages. It's crucial to note that while many notable figures may lack a Wikipedia page, meeting Wikipedia's defined criteria qualifies them as notable individuals.

Our standard for notability doesn't rely solely on the presence of a Wikipedia page, but rather on whether an individual genuinely fulfills Wikipedia's requirements for one. If uncertain about an individual's notability, consult the Project Leaders for clarification.

To establish notability, various accepted sources can be considered:

1. Published Works: Citations from books, articles, or other published materials explicitly discussing the individual in a significant context are valuable. Biographies, scholarly articles, or historical records carry weight.

2. Media Coverage: Articles from reputable newspapers, magazines, or online sources discussing the person's achievements, contributions, or significant life events are relevant.

3. Academic or Institutional Recognition: Records from academic institutions, professional associations, or organizations recognizing the individual's accomplishments, including awards, honors, or memberships in prestigious societies, provide validation.

4. Biographical Databases: References from established biographical databases, encyclopedias, or reference works detailing the person's life, contributions, or influence are considered.

5. Notable Achievements: Evidence of significant contributions or achievements in a particular field or domain that has a lasting impact or influence is valuable.

For queries about an individual's notability or the sufficiency of a particular source, post on the G2G forum tagging the Notables Project for assistance.
by Jimmy Honey G2G6 Pilot (170k points)
Thanks, Jimmy! We meet regularly to discuss these types of items, so we'll add this to our list and see what we can come up with.
+15 votes
For those who didn't catch our separate post, Scott and David would like to take a moment to formally welcome Russell Butler as the newest member of the Notables Leadership Team. Russell has been very active in the Notables Project for quite some time, and we are thrilled that WikiTree has now recognized his talents by declaring him an official WikiTree leader.

Congratulations Russell and welcome to the team!
by David Randall G2G6 Pilot (366k points)
+10 votes

Science Fiction pioneer Murry Leinster will be connected to the global tree when the links update tonight.

by Scott Fulkerson G2G Astronaut (1.5m points)
+9 votes

Another great science fiction pioneer, Hal Clement, should be connected tonight once the links update.

by Scott Fulkerson G2G Astronaut (1.5m points)
+10 votes

I just posted  about Niklaus Wirth 

Now have created a profile for him, needs more work, as well as needing to be connected to the Global tree, so feel free to contribute. Wirth-1649

by Coen Jacob Dijkgraaf G2G6 Mach 6 (63.8k points)
edited by Coen Jacob Dijkgraaf
I improved his bio and added sources.
+11 votes
Actress Glynis Johns has died. She was 100 years old.

https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/1685273/glynis-johns-from-mary-poppins-has-died-at-100

She is probably best known for playing the Suffragette Mrs Banks in the original Mary Poppins Movie.
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glynis_Johns
by Robynne Lozier G2G Astronaut (1.3m points)
The Notables Project manages her profile that now needs to be opened:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Johns-7342
Her profile is now opened for editing. Thanks!
+9 votes
Former Canadian professional ice hockey player Connie Madigan has passed away.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Madigan-1137
by Judi Stutz G2G6 Pilot (343k points)
+8 votes
German Actor Christian Oliver and his 2 daughters were all killed in a plane crash.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/actor-christian-oliver-51-daughters-172031562.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Oliver
by Robynne Lozier G2G Astronaut (1.3m points)
+10 votes
by Robynne Lozier G2G Astronaut (1.3m points)
He now has a profile that should be connected by tomorrow ...

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Solberg-575
Profile IS connected!!
+10 votes
I think I've started a new notable...What would my next steps be?   I'm still working on his profile, should I restrict it to just me for now?   He's deceased but I also would like to use a photo - maybe Wikipedia photo is ok to use?   Kevorkian-13
by Melissa Maynard G2G6 Mach 4 (43.7k points)
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Kevorkian-13

I don't know about images.

For living or controversial Notables you have to have the Notables Project as co-PM.

But not so for deceased Notables which can be open.

If he has a Wikipedia page you must put that address on his profile.

Then at the top you put ...

{{Notables Sticker}}
Photos from Wikipedia are generally deemed acceptable to use.

Images from Wikipedia need to be checked regards copyright, as many are not free to use. 
Even images from Wikimedia Commons are not all free to use.   Each image should have its own statement regards copyright, or Creative Commons use, and such should be included if uploading to WikiTree where allowed by the image's stated license.

Great - thank you N!
Thank you Robynne!
Thank you Melanie - I will confirm the copyright of the photo. It wasn't easily noticeable at first but I will keep looking!
The easiest way that I've found to look at a Wikimedia Commons photo is the following:

1) Go to the Wikipedia page.

2) Right-Click on the photo and select Open link in new tab.

3) Go to the new tab, and you'll see the photo, followed by a Summary. Review the summary information.

4) Typically the Summary will tell you if the photo is "Free" or "Not Free" and the "Rationale" behind it. It is important to remember that unfortunately, while WikiTree is free to use, it is officially known as a "Commercial site". This means that certain photos that may be OK to use on Wikipedia may not be OK to use here without special permission from the owner. That permission can be obtained, but we would need to ask, and await their response.

Hope that helps.

This is a license note on a non-free image I was hoping to upload, but won't after reviewing it's "non-free" statements:

This image is a faithful digitisation of a unique historic image, and the copyright for it is most likely held by the person who created the image or the agency employing the person. It is believed that the use of this image may qualify as non-free use under the Copyright law of the United StatesAny other uses of this image, on Wikipedia or elsewhere, may be copyright infringement. See Wikipedia:Non-free content for more information.

Please remember that the non-free content criteria require that non-free images on Wikipedia must not "[be] used in a manner that is likely to replace the original market role of the original copyrighted media." Use of historic images from press agencies must only be of a transformative nature, when the image itself is the subject of commentary rather than the event it depicts (which is the original market role, and is not allowed per policy).

Awesome Scott!  Thank you!  It says I'm free to share, distribute and as long as I link back to the source which I believe I did.   Thank you for those detailed instructions, I appreciate that!
+9 votes
Actress Cindy Morgan has died. She was 69 years old. Best known for Tron and Caddyshack.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/cindy-morgan-star-tron-caddyshack-235225255.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cindy_Morgan
by Robynne Lozier G2G Astronaut (1.3m points)
I remember reading about her, and I may have created her profile already.
+9 votes

I've filled in and connected maternal ancestors for The Father of Scientific Management Frederick Winslow Taylor His Hussey great grandparents were notable early Abolitionists and conductors on the Underground Railroad. I am still developing the profiles for Samuel and Thankful Purington Hussey.

by Anonymous Reed G2G6 Pilot (185k points)
+10 votes

The German football (soccer for Americans) player Franz Beckenbauer died. Death date is added, PPP not yet lifted, but he is visible.

by Jelena Eckstädt G2G Astronaut (1.5m points)
I was just thinking that in Europe, his death would likely warrant a connection feature - but I guess no one has heard of him on the other side of the Atlantic.
well, he played for 2 1/2 years in New York, but in New York he could live a life without any attention, no matter if people or media.
I only wish that I had the resources needed to find a connection for him. My research experience unfortunately extends primarily to the "west", although I'm learning a bit more about European research the more I try. Perhaps someone with a bit more experience will take a shot at him, although if I'm able to find anything on him, I'll certainly help.
+7 votes

Producer-Director-Screenwriter Albert Lewin will be connected tonight once the links update. Albert was the Director and Screenwriter for the 1945 film The Picture of Dorian Gray. His film was nominated for 3 Academy Awards and won 1, won a Golden Globe, a Hugo, and a Saturn. Of those awards, only the Hugo went to Albert. Interestingly enough, the Academy Award went to Harry Stradlin. Angela Lansbury won the Golden Globe.

by Scott Fulkerson G2G Astronaut (1.5m points)
+8 votes

Can you please change the privacy level of the living notable Francisco Pinto Balsemão (Pereira_Pinto_Balsemão-1)?

He is a Portuguese businessman, former journalist and retired politician, who served as Prime Minister of Portugal, from 1981 to 1983.

Has Wikipedia pages in 21 languages. Added Notables Project and Scott Fulkerson as managers.

by Anonymous Anonymous G2G6 Mach 1 (18.2k points)
Not a problem - his PPP has been set up and his profile is now Yellow privacy. Thanks!

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