Brick wall on Scottish forebears, help needed.

Question

I have hit a wall on my GGGgrandfather and mother in Scotland.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Milton-313

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Watson-29864

They were previously linked to the wrong ancesters, but I can't find records in the right area for them.  Can anybody help?

Answer 1

A little nervous here as I have posted very little on Wikitree. I noticed that most of your sources are Family Search and Ancestry so I went in a different direction.

What I'm listing are results from a quick and dirty search of the National Records of Scotland via scotlandspeople.gov.uk. This information is taken from transcriptions as there is a cost involved to open the original documents.

Found only one Ayrshire birth for an Anne Watson:  Watson, Ann Hepburn, b/bap 03 Mar 1803 at Ayr to James Watson / Catherine Richmond.

Didn't find any Ayrshire births for a William Milton but did find: Milton, William, b/bap 25 Jun 1794 at Paisley (west side of Glasgow), son to William Milton / Janet Clark. That puts this William about 31 miles from Sorn.

Wouldn't put a lot of faith in the above births, they are a shot in the dark. I don't know how long you have been searching the Scots and you may already know this but I'll mention an often used traditional naming pattern for a couple's children that has helped me a little in the past: first son - named after the father's father; second son named after the mother's father; first daughter named after the mother's mother; second daughter named after the father's father.  Neither of the above births meet this criteria.

The marriage is recorded as 30 Oct 1818 at Sorn and as 30 Nov 1818 at Mauchline. Could be a transcription error.

I did find solid b/bap dates for their four children:  MILTON, George, b/bap 04 Apr 1819 at Sorn, son to William Milton / Anne Watson; MILTON, John, b/bap 30 Aug 1820 at Sorn, son to William Milton / Anne Watson; MILTON, William, b/bap 15 Sep 1822 at St Quivox (about 13 miles from Sorn), son to William Milton / Anne Watson; MILTON, Margaret, b/bap 00/00/1824 at St Quivox, daughter to William Milton / Anne Watson.

Since Anne is noted with William at Kilmarnock in the 1841 census I tried to find a death between 1841-1851. Prior to 1855 Scotland's women tended to keep their maiden name. So a I did a search for both Milton and Watson. No hits when searching Ann Milton however I did find the following for a Watson.  WATSON, Anne, d. 10 Jan 1845 at Dailly (about 30 miles from Kilmarnock).

Nothing but the children's information is solid but it does introduce you to another source.  Hope some of the above was helpful.

Comments

"Prior to 1855 Scotland's women tended to keep their maiden name. So a I did a search for both Milton and Watson. No hits when searching Ann Milton however I did find the following for a Watson.  WATSON, Anne, d. 10 Jan 1845 at Dailly (about 30 miles from Kilmarnock)."

Nice!

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So True!  Maiden names and Middle names will take you far when you are researching Scotland.

Also, I did note the marriage banns were read in both parishes, Mauchline and Sorn.    This is not unusual and suggests the birth parish of each bride and groom., 

The children of the couple likely hold valuable clues in census records etc.

As to the 1941 Scotland census

The census takers were instructed to give the exact ages of children but to round the ages of those older than 15 down to a lower multiple of 5. For example, a 59-year-old person would be listed as 55. Not all census enumerators followed these instructions.

Linda

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Thanks, it's a lot to take in.
I did look at Scotland's People, and paid to look at various records.  I'm just not sure if/how I can add them to WT.

Ann Hepburn Watson married a Mr Streetly, so not my Anne Watson.

The 2 marriage records for a William in Paisly married a Marion and a Margaret.

The Mauchlin/Sorn marriage is because the parties cam from the 2 different parishes.  Interestingly, it's because of the naming tradition that I managed to get this far.  One of the children born in South Africa had this random name Anne Watson Milton, so when I found William and Anne I was able to scroll through the baptism records to find John Peter's.  Anne Watson from Dailly is not the right Ann Watson (thank you for pointing her out).

Answer 2

Regarding William Milton's profile (Milton-313), there seems to be an inconsistency - the profile shows that he was in the Scotland 1861 census, but then reports that the Chelsea Pensioner record shows that he died in 1858.

Please clarify?

Scottish death certs are wonderful, but I can't find one for him in 1858.

There might be three deaths pertaining to him after the 1861 census

MILTON	WILLIAM	66	BLACK	M	1861	156 / 22	Grange (Banff)
MILTON	WILLIAM	81	SCOTT	M	1862	161 / 28	Marnoch
MILTON	WILLIAM		HENDERSON	M	1862	573 / 3 / 156	Paisley Middle Church

You'd need to check registration districts, but perhaps Paisley is closest to Sorn?

Another possibility is that William moved to another location.  These might be his in from the GRO

MILTON, WILLIAM	70
GRO Reference: 1858  M Quarter in WELLINGTON-SOMERSET AND DEVON  Volume 05C  Page 321
	MILTON, WILLIAM	74
	GRO Reference: 1858  M Quarter in UXBRIDGE UNION  Volume 03A  Page 19
	MILTON, WILLIAM	70
	GRO Reference: 1858  J Quarter in LEICESTER  Volume 07A  Page 112
	MILTON, WILLIAM	73
	GRO Reference: 1858  J Quarter in CREDITON  Volume 05B  Page 279

Comments

Good point re the death certificate.  When I looked at the copy on ancestry it looked as if it was transcribed incorrectly and was supposed to read 1868, but then they have the age as 72.  Can't be both, so I removed it.
The Banff Milton I have followed through with (previously) and it's not him.  I will take another look at the other two, as I dismissed them earlier.

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I think there are two William Miltons with Chelsea Pensioner papers.

1) WM who died 30 Apr 1858, age 72, PRIVATE. Looking at the record, maybe that's 1868, but given the date below it, I think it's likely 1858:

https://www.ancestry.com/sharing/7079523?mark=7b22746f6b656e223a22336f7045353731446d476f6e4f2f53714348584a656555586e4430642b45582b776535326f71304f7432773d222c22746f6b656e5f76657273696f6e223a225632227d

2) WM who died 11 May 1858, age 69, SERJT. He served in the 63rd Foot.

https://www.ancestry.com/sharing/7124350?mark=7b22746f6b656e223a22337853544a50363863755652514338306c386c3170616955634c6a374d3170456e46554963494d525349383d222c22746f6b656e5f76657273696f6e223a225632227d

I'm skeptical that either of these belong to your man - one book is labeled from Exeter, the other from Leicester.  I think the transcription you posted is for a different man than the two represented in the linked records.  In fact, if you look at the FreeBMD indexes, one is from Devon (Crediton & Exeter are in Devon) and the other from Leicester.

Have you found your man's attestation papers?  If they exist, I think FMP has attestation papers.

Unfortunately, neither of these seem to meet your man living in 1861.  Hmm.

IMO - we need someone who has FMP access!

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"The Banff Milton I have followed through with (previously) and it's not him.  I will take another look at the other two, as I dismissed them earlier."

Look closely for the distance from the registration district to his last known location.  My guess is that the Banff & Marnoch locations are a bit far for your man, unless he moved to family.

I'm not clear about Paisley, but it seemed like it might (MIGHT!) be closer to Ayr.  It lacks an age (dunno why?).  I don't know the geography. 

Also possible - he missed registration, or it's misspelled or mistranscribed.

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What is FMP access?
I have paid for several records from Scotland's people, just not sure if I can add them to the profile.  I think I will, and if I have to remove them then I'll do so.  Meantime, you can take a look, too, if interested.

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Find My Past - UK based company that has genealogy records.  Many records are on both FMP and Ancestry, but each company has sets unique to them.

Chelsea Pension records on FMP (if they exist for a soldier) usually have the attestation paper (contract signed when he joined), service record - where and when he served, ranks, discharge, death.  If he married while in service, it often hast date, place and name of spouse.

Your man is earlier than the people that I've researched, so I'm not sure what his papers would have.  I've looked at papers for someone born 1834 and later.  You get the date of attestation and the age, sometimes to the exact day.  Usually not POB.

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Ancestry has been busy since I last looked up a Chelsea Pensioner record.  They have them indexed, but images are on fold3

https://www.ancestry.com/sharing/7143630?mark=7b22746f6b656e223a2232796c61583567554a3156796d4e415337536150307837334663624775646f657653342f6847416d6a41383d222c22746f6b656e5f76657273696f6e223a225632227d

seems like a good match for your man, but I think you've seen at least the index before?

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Well, thank you!  That's the image I added to the WT profile earlier, and it wasn't on Ancestry at the time.  My adding it to the Ancestry tree must've nudged it, somehow.

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from the attestation:

William Milton born 1797 in Manchlin, Ayreshire
Attestation date 1st Jun 1803 aged 16 and was a Gunner in the 5th Batt Royal Artilliary.
Served for 13years and 129 days.

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I've seen part of the document that info came from: "Discharge lost or mislaid" - Extracts from documents kept at the Head Quarters of the Corps, and from the [cut, resumes on next page]shewing the Service of Wm Milton discharged from the 5 Batt [cut] in consequence of Reduction & admitted on the Pension List

those 13 years and 129 days seem to be the time that he was a private.  I don't have the continued columns, if any, that might indicate additional service at a different rank (gunner, like when he was discharged?)

So, his original attestation papers might give some enlightenment, but if they couldn't find them then, probably not now either?

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I don't know much about military documents, and that's all I found so far.

Answer 3

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