Please add Van_Dyck-65 as the father of Margaret Van_Dyck-270

Question

He's shown on the baptism record attached to her and other researchers have identified him as her father; however, I lack the proper permissions to add him as it seems that he's a protected profile.

Name Maragrietie Van Deyck Record Type Baptism Baptism Date 25 Apr 1724 Baptism Place North Tarrytown, New York, USA Baptism Church First Tarrytown Church Father Frans Van Deyck Mother Resoel Van Deyck

Detail The Archives of the Reformed Church in America; New Brunswick, New Jersey; First Tarrytown Church, Church Records, 1697-1817 Source information Title U.S., Dutch Reformed Church Records in Selected States, 1639-1989 Author Ancestry.com Publisher Ancestry.com Operations, Inc. Publisher date 2014 Publisher location Provo, UT, USA

Comments

Hunter, Any possibility that the following is online somewhere, so we could take a look at the original?

"Name Maragrietie Van Deyck Record Type Baptism Baptism Date 25 Apr 1724 Baptism Place North Tarrytown, New York, USA Baptism Church First Tarrytown Church Father Frans Van Deyck Mother Resoel Van Deyck"

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U.S., Dutch Reformed Church Records in Selected States, 1639-1989 - Ancestry.com

This should show her as 487 near the bottom left under April 24, 1724

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For your future reference, that source is not proprietary to Ancestry.com. It is a book that is in the public domain and that is available on several free websites. The book can and should be cited by author, title, publication date and place, and page number. The WikiTree page First Record Book of the Old Dutch Church of Sleepy Hollow, Organized in 1697 and Now the First Reformed Church_of Tarrytown, N.Y. provides information about the book, where to find it online, and how to cite it in a profile here on WikiTree. That page is one of many sources for church records for New Netherland that are listed on this page maintained by the New Netherland project to help members with researching and documenting New Netherland people. 

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Thank you for showing me that, I thought Ancestry was the only source that had information like that, I had no idea that the project here on Wikitree had access to sources like that. I'll make sure to source from here in the future so everyone can see it

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I think Ancestry would like members to think that its databases are exclusive to the Ancestry websites. Some are indeed exclusive, but others are not -- and there are quite a few valuable resources that aren't on Ancestry.

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I've removed the project protection from Frans' profile, so members with pre-1700 certification can now connect children to his profile. Please provide appropriate source citations to reliable sources (definitely not "Ancestry Family Trees," nor incomplete and unfollowable citations like "Frans Van Diijk Christening" and "U.S., Dutch Reformed Church Records in Selected States, 1639-1989").

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I would also change the designation of the place, as in 1724 there were no United States. I think if you were erase that part and hold the cursor over the name it should give you the choice to use British colony instead. It will show up as an error otherwise (if that’s the designated place in the profile and not in a biographical write-up) when you go to your suggestions box from the top left pull down menu.

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Geoff: In WikiTree we use place names that were in contemporary use. Terms like "British colony," "British Colonial America," and "Colonial America" were applied later as descriptors and appear in historical accounts, but they weren't contemporary names.

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So we just use the city county and Colony or County and Colony or the colony? At least in the NNS project? I wasn’t thinking about anachronisms, but when it was offered I lazily chose it for a number of profiles. Is there any way the techies can take location suggestions that include anachronisms and merge them into the proper form?

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@Geoff: Yes, for colonial America we treat the name of the individual colony as the highest-level element of the place name.

It's been an continuing challenge to maintain this policy in the face of contradictory data in certain online databases and in the dropdown place name lists, which come from FamilySearch. WikiTree no longer shows "British Colonial America" in the dropdowns. The Suggestions system had to be trained not to mark some valid colony names as errors in the data fields, and there is a feature in the WikiTree Browser Extension that makes some additional improvements to the dropdowns, but it's hard to make these systems as smart as humans.

Answer 1

I have found the problem.
The mother is married to Frans Jacobus Van Dyck.
And his profile is Project Protected.
You have to be a project-member, if you want to connect him as the father of Margrietje.
So contact, or join the New Netherland Settlers Project:
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Project:New_Netherland_Settlers

Comments

I have made a request to [[Smith-62120|Ellen Smith]] who is the Project Leader of the New Netherland Settlers Project.

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Yes! That does seem to be the issue here, thank you for contacting them, I'll do the same. I joined the project but I don't know exactly how to add to a protected profile so this seems like the best course of action.

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I see now that you are already a paritcipant of the New Netherland Project.  So you should use for your questions:

• We use New Netherland Settlers Google Group for communication.

 

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I see! I'll use that in the future, I was under the impression that G2G was the way the project communicated. Thanks for showing me

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Connections of family members to project-protected (PPP) profiles can be made only by Project Leaders, Project Coordinators, and individual members who are profile managers for the project-protected profile. Being a project member does not give a member permission to make connections to the the project's PPP profiles.

As for sending notifications to the project, the best way to alert a project to a connection request for a project-managed PPP profile is to post a profile comment on the PPP profile that you want to connect to. That will generate a notification to the project and other profile managers -- and the message will be seen by anyone who visits the PPP profile. Unless a few days have passed without any response, please don't supplement that notification with personal messages to project leaders or other additional messages -- for me, the main effect of these supplemental messages is to increase the volume of email I need to sort through (thus reducing my availability to tend to your request).

And the New Netherland Project does use the Google Group to receive notifications of merge requests, connection requests, and profile messages, but the best ways to interact are (1) post a profile message on the project-managed profile you are commenting on or (2) if it is a complicated question or one likely to be of broader  interest, post here in G2G.

Answer 2

The Sleepy Hollow church record does show that Frans van Deyck and wife Resoel had their child Maragrietie baptized in 1724, but the sourced evidence for that is not in either profile. Yes, now that I have seen the source I could add the record to the profiles and add the baptism info to her biography, but  as Project Leader I would prefer that project members take primary responsibility for researching and documenting their ancestors of members. The project is here to provide advice and resources, and to oversee quality assurance (including dealing with PPP and its related issues), but not to take over members' genealogy.

Similarly, the additional children that Pierre has identified could be connected to the parents, but only after appropriately sourced profiles are created.