Seeking local knowledge of Llangunnor, Carmarthenshire, Wales

Question

Hi All, 

I'm researching the family of my 4x great grandfather, David Evans, who have a connection to St. Ceinwr in Llangunnor, Carmarthenshire.  I'm seeking local knowledge around the Llangunnor area, circa 1800, to locate their apparent residence "Tirdu", as referenced in the records of many family members.  It has various spellings, such as Tir du, Tir Dee, Tyrdy, Tyrdu.

1. Am I right in thinking that these are indeed alternate spellings of the same place?  What would the "correct" spelling be?  "Tirdu" seems to be common.  Would this be a farm?

2. Can anyone point me at a 1800's-era map which might indicate it's location?  Or even marked on a modern map.

3. Two of David's children were apparently aboded at "Tybormile" and "Pybormill" - does this mean anything to anyone?

Many thanks, Danny.

Answer 1

It would be “Tir du”; it means “black earth”. A house of that name can be found on this OS map (with a modern map next to it, zoomable so you can see exactly where it is).

There is a “Felin Pibwr” next to it, which would be translated as “Pibwr Mill”, which is probably the residence in your 3rd question. The stream that the mill lies on is called Nant Pibwr, which explains the name.

Comments

Thank you!  That's some great intel.

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That's not in the village of Llangunnor, though. It is quite a way away from that - perhaps in the old Parish of Llangunnor if it extends that way ? That area on the map is right by the place known as Pibwrlwyd.

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Hi Joe,

I don’t think Danny’s question said that the family were living in Llangunnor village, and the mention of St Ceinwr (the parish church) implies that the parish was intended. The map I posted shows the parish boundary goes along Nant Pibwr so the buildings are just inside the southern boundary of the parish — but nevertheless “in” Llangunnor (parish).

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Hi Joe, a very good point.  I always assumed it was more about the parish than the village. Maybe there's a family connection to St Ceinwr that predates any move to Tir-du, especially for key things like baptisms and burials.

Also, David Evans' grandson John George Evans was (according to family lore) born in Pen-sarn - I don't know whether that means in Pen-sarn, or near Pen-sarn, but that's consistent with Tir-du as well.

Incidentally, John George Evans reportedly walked to Swansea at age 12 to run away to sea, so the 3.5 km or so from Tir-du to St Ceinwr probably wasn't a big deal in those days! 

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Yes, you're right. Pensarn, Pibwrlwyd, and Llangunnor are all walkable in a fairly short time. The modern Pensarn roundabout is near both Pibwrlwyd and the modern Llangunnor. In 1800 there might not have even been a Llangunnor village as such.  The name is derived from Church ( "Llan" ) of St "Gunnor" ie St Ceinwr or St Cynnwr.  There are not many old buildings around the church - most of the present day Llangunnor houses are modern 20th century development, as is Pensarn. At most it would have been a hamlet. Let me know if you want anything at the church photographed.

Answer 2

It was almost definitely the same place, a farm in the small village of Llangunnor, & I would hazard a guess the correct name would be Tyr Du. This map lists it as a field, scroll down past the map and look at neighbouring places listed. I find that with many maps. This is 1880’s  I think, https://historicplacenames.rcahmw.gov.uk/placenames/recordedname/29b57373-a6d4-4efe-a620-59463d591ba2