Harry Carey Parents

Question

So a question has been proposed to change the father of Harry Caray from the current father of Samuel Capuran to Christ Carabina. When this was originally discussed (in miniature - a few replies on the profile), there appeared to be reasonable enough evidence to state that Capuran was the actual father, as Wikipedia did not say one way or the other, but Find A Grave appeared to agree, and there was only essentially hearsay at the time to support Carabina as the father.

However, more recent information from biographies of Harry Carey as well as some what appear to be circumstantial documentation has a reasonable case now for Carabina as the biological parent.

So not being an expert on Harry Caray, I'm going to toss this out to the group - based on the evidence, who does it appear has the stronger case for biological father? Mother is relatively straightforward, but father seems undecided in my mind, or perhaps I haven't read the correct set of documents to support the correct parent - so hopefully someone out there has some good solid evidence that's either not reported on his profile, or knows of a source that can clear this up.

Answer 1

Well, I'm a Chicagoan. My Cubs knowledge is better than my Harry Caray knowledge though. (Family rented to our cousin Charlie Root while he was a coach.)

The Harry Caray profile at Famous Missourian has excellent sourcing (if you scroll to the bottom of the page.) I don't know if you're referring to this or not:

https://historicmissourians.shsmo.org/harry-caray

They are pointing to Carabina as his bio father.  Perhaps ask the historical society of Missouri and the author of this article.

Harry Christopher Carabina was born on March 1, 1914, in St. Louis. Harry knew very little of his childhood. In his autobiography, Holy Cow!, he claims to be half Italian. However, census records indicate both his parents were Albanian. His father, Christopher Carabina, was a waiter who served in the military during the First World War and likely never rejoined the family after the war. Harry had no memories of his father. His mother, Daisy Argint (originally Tasica Argintaru), was a seamstress who died when he was around fourteen years old. Harry claimed being much younger when his mother remarried and passed away, but public records show she married Sam Capuran in 1926 and then died from pneumonia on April 2, 1928.

After his mother passed, Harry lived with his maternal uncle, John Argint, his aunt, Doxie, and their four children at 1909 LaSalle Avenue. In 1930 the family moved to Selma Avenue and Harry attended Webster Groves High School.

Comments

Dina - after looking into this further, this researcher is probably right about his father. So far it's still a bit circumstantial, but I do see a stronger case for Christopher Carabina than for Samuel Capuran. I think that at the time of the original request for parents to be added, the only reference that had what appeared to be any solid evidence was Find A Grave, and it was (and still is) Capuran. Knowing that they are only as reliable as the person who put it there, and often they get their info from the last person to tell them what to put there, it's as trustworthy as a family tree without sources.

Answer 2

I would suggest adding discussion of the evidence on the profile, perhaps in a research note.

Looking quickly, I don't see any evidence that Capuran was his father, and I see that the Social Security applications index has Carabina as his father. But I of course may be missing something--that's why a research note (or some other discussion) about the evidence would help.

I did find that Daisy Argint married Sam Capuran in 1926 (https://www.ancestry.com/sharing/85430?token=KVIFidAMxMwTca3%2BoV6QgZwxiyInAX7RO4LWIillop0%3D). Of course, he could still have been the father, but that counts at least a bit in favor of Carabina as the father.

Comments

I find it interesting Harry is connected on FamilySearch as the son of Christ Carabina and Daisy. Also, Sam remarried, sometime before the 1940 census.

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This is the problem Harry - I don't have a dog in this race. I was told initially his father was Capuran, and from what I recall, Wikipedia agreed with this at the time. Now I'm being told it's Carabina, and now Wikipedia agrees with this. While Wikipedia isn't exactly the most reliable measure of truth (by any respect), it is peculiar that the data changed in that time since the parents were first proposed to now. So I've not done any of the past research and would most likely have to start from scratch.

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Laying out what "used to be" and what "appears to be now" - here are the evidences that were originally brought:

- Wikipedia - previously said father wasn't in the picture and still pretty much shows the same thing.

- Find a Grave - used to and still does say that his parents are Capuran and Argint

- Holy Cow, his biography - while his statements are fuzzy, he seems to believe that his father was Carabina, but he says he barely knew his father and the statement seems to be shadowed by faint memories only and not much evidence

- The fact that Capuran didn't marry Anastasia until 1926 is a compelling argument. If it was 1916 it would seem to be more likely that they could have had an early child and just married a bit later. But that's a pretty big gap.

- The 1920 Census has mother's last name as "Corabina", which seems an awful lot like Carabina and not much like Capuran. She says she's "married" at that time, although her husband isn't listed.

- While no marriage records seem to be available between Carabina and Argint, it does seem a bit more plausible that they married around 1912-1914 (just prior to WW I) and he sort of floated in and out of their lives over the next decade until she finally divorced with him, probably due to neglect more than anything else. When she applies for the marriage license, she claims (on 10 Sep 1926) that she is currently single, unmarried, and eligible to marry.

That's about as much as I've been able to piece together without really digging in. But since I'm not the expert and Harry's a bit of a beloved legend in some circles, I wanted to make sure this got some eyes on it other than mine as there may be someone out there who knows something new - like Capuran and Argint had an affair, or knew each other years before they were married, or something that might lead to Capuran actually being "potentially" the father.

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The St. Louis Post-Dispatch obituary claims that his birth certificate shows he was born 'Harry Carabina'. 

'Mr. Caray was born Harry Carabina on March 14, 1914, his birth certificate shows, to French-Romanian and Italian parents in St. Louis.' (obituary, Harry Caray, St. Louis Post-Dispatch, 19 Feb 1998, at p.8,col.2; image copy, ''Newspapers'' (https://www.newspapers.com/clip/110958235/sold-on-st-louis-st-louis-post-disp/  : accessed 8 October 2022).

Unfortunately, the birth certificates seem not to be available sigh (https://health.mo.gov/data/vitalrecords/obtain-vital-record.php). But that's secondary evidence about what the birth certificate says.

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I'll have to edit my original statement about Wikipedia. In reviewing previous edits, it appears they never did and currently do not state who his father is. So they weren't much help.

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Excellent work checking your memory instead of just assuming it was correct.

My impression is that the evidence supports his father's being Carabina. Getting the birth certificate would be ideal, but as far as I can see that's not possible now. Do you feel comfortable changing his father (perhaps with a research note)?

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I think we've pieced together most of why this was originally requested to show Capuran, but I want to leave this open another couple of days in case someone has a better recollection and wishes to add to this. If no further input is received, I'll change it to Carabina and close the question.

Thanks for yours (and others) input into this.

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Doesn't seem anyone has more to add. Clearly there appears to be no support for Capuran being his father.  Ready to change it?