One Name Study with DNA subgroups

Question

I'm interested in starting a subgroup under a one-name study that corresponds to a particular Y-DNA lineage.  The lineage I'm familiar with comes from FTDNA surname projects and is defined by a haplotype group.  It seems reasonable to have a free space page and/or a subgroup under a one name study that can address this.  I would then like to refer to and link the freespace page and/or subgroup in communications outside of Wikitree.  Is there already something similar to this in the Wikitree world?

Answer 1

James: I attempted to do something similar last year while I was still learning WikiTree, but issues quickly arose.  I'm hoping to restart my effort this fall.

One of the big issues was that we had a solid group of matching McCool-surname Y-DNA tests, but then my grandfather's 3C tested on Big Y-700 and didn't match.  We assumed that meant there was an NPE in my line in the early 1700s.  In early 2022, though, my family matched to a new Y-111 test from a distant McCool cousin - who had the strongest paper trail yet to the presumed common ancestor of the other McCool group - which we clearly aren't part of.  

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Y-DNA_Haplogroup_R-FGC13495_Study  

Our results, of course, don't change the matches of the other McCool group - not the pre-surname standardization matches nor the McCool surname matches.  But it does throw my entire pretty chart into question - because we're no longer certain which non-matching McCool line descends from John McCoole Sr (gen 2).

In our case, we hope to solve the problem this fall/winter - because we have many presumed living descendants of John McCoole Sr's other sons.  We just need to get a couple of them to take a Y-DNA test.

I've stalled on announcing the McCool one-name study until I can clear up some of the issues - but we'll get there.

Comments

Kevin - kudos and congratulations - this is amazing work. Although I am not closer related than R1a, I found this a very interesting read and a great example for documenting the current understanding of your research. Thank you for sharing, I might like to refer back to it, once I am progressing a little bit more with my own research...

Answer 2

Within a project, yes. As a standalone, not so much. There are a couple of free space pages, but for some reason they are only set up to have one example on each. 

See https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:DNA_Categorization_for_Projects for the discussion about Y-STR Categories, and see the https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Crawford_DNA for some examples of how I'm using them. 

Interestingly, although they are a project in the works, I've already found several examples where descendants pointed out that the linked lineage did not make sense for the category, so the exercise has born fruit already. The long term list of goals for WikiTree includes displaying the haplogroup high level (A/R/I/etc) on the Family Tree view, which may help indicate where those conflicts are a little easier.

Comments

I like how the Crawford_DNA example categorizes by Y-STR group and places profiles into each category.   I would like to do something similar to tie together the profiles that don't necessarily have the patrilineal chain among Wikitree members but do within the larger population of DNA tests.

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Maybe talk to Mags and Peter in the https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:DNA_Group_Projects and see if they can help you set up something for a haplogroup. I have wondered if that would be useful, since we have a well documented lineage in the Crawford Name Study which is not found within any of the known clan lines (I2 haplogroup). I wonder if I could locate all other I2 testers if there would be clues.

Answer 3

Here is how to show patrilineal lines with matching Y haplotypes but the ancestry is incomplete:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:DNA_Categorization_for_Projects

and

https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/289481/you-have-matching-dna-with-same-surname-ancestry-incomplete

Answer 4

We use pages for each DNA group https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Index_to_Gilbert_Y-DNA_Lineages

Answer 5

Hi Jim, I will be happy to help where I can. I manage my brother's Y DNA and my mtDNA at FTDNA. I started with 67 markers for my brother, then moved up to Y700 about 2 or so years ago. I communicated with Donn Devine, JD, CG about a year before he died. He managed the Baldwin surname on FTDNA because his wife was a Pennsylvania Baldwin. He did a great job of organizing the Baldwin surname by location (CT, PA, NC) based on their DNA. I originally contacted him because he placed my brother with the CT Baldwins and the direct Baldwin ancestor I was most familiar with was an early settler of MA. Donn explained that he included my brother with CT because they all had to have had a common ancestor given their DNA. He was absolutely correct!

Since that time, I took a genetic genealogy course through our local historical society, a seminar with Blaine Bettinger, and got a small bit of training in genetic genealogy via the Boston University course I took online just prior to the pandemic.

About a week or so ago, I was thinking about doing a 'Baldwin One Name Study' based on location of origin (e.g. the CT and MA Baldwins all came from the Aston Clinton, Buckinghamshire region of England. And now your idea is very similar and also based on the DNA subgroups.

Here is the issue, I think, with DNA subgroups, though. Most of the men from Western Europe are R-M269, which is what most WikiTree men have uploaded from Ancestry, 23andme, MyHeritage as atDNA. I don't know how many men on WikiTree have paid to have Y67, let alone Y111 markers that can help distinguish lineage.

Nevertheless, I think it is a good idea! When I updated my 7xGGF, Henry Baldwin, I actually added a section on Baldwin Immigrants from Aston Clinton and Common Ancestors. I think this is akin to what you want to do.

Here is the link to my Henry Baldwin: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Baldwin-5

You will also see this in the upper right corner, a member with haplogroup R-BY62081 based on y-700 done at FTDNA.

I mentioned that I manage my brother's DNA on FTDNA, Ancestry, etc. I paid to have his Y700. He is more than happy to have me list his DNA on WikiTree; however, HE would have to have a site and sign, etc. This won't happen because he is blind in one eye, and never (I mean NEVER) uses a computer, wants to use a computer, etc., which is why he has me manage his DNA (as a favor to me in my genealogical quests). I just had a G2G discourse about this very issue, actually, about a week ago. 

At any rate, the person's Y700 is an EXACT MATCH with my brother's Y700. It kills me sometimes to not be able to upload his DNA and see to such matches. The WT member's Y700 is on all of the MA and CT Baldwins and their male descendants...just as Donn Devine had organized those Baldwin DNA studies! The WT member contacted me because he saw my brother's exact Y700 match on FTDNA and questioned the LNAB difference. The WT member has since added his line to WikiTree and until around 1700, his LNAB was Baldwin. He descends from the CT Baldwins. For whatever reason, perhaps adoption, his surname went from Baldwin to his current last name. 

Kevin Ireland's email to you might suggest a similar issue with McCool (e.g., like Donn did, he organized Baldwin DNA into CT, PA, etc.). It could be that Kevin's McCool line may have a different common ancestor versus his cousin. I am not well-enough versed in DNA to that extent to know. 

I will look forward to following this G2G post. I think this would be a real contribution to the Tree to distinguish between common surnames and DNA. Do keep in mind, as well, that there may be ethical issues that would need to be addressed with a One Name DNA subgroup.

Comments

I am blown away by all of your responses.  I will be reaching out for help soon.  Thanks for all the great information, there's a lot to absorb.  It's obviously tricky to associate patronymic surnames with Y-DNA lineages because the same surname may have several origins.  I'm backing up a little bit to contact the genealogist for advise and permission to use his work.  

Thanks again - Jim

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BTW, Carol, my wife is a CT Baldwin!