Is John Calvert, Quaker 1650s Lurgan, Ireland ancestor to Calvert-4122

Question

There is a family book that indicates that Hiram Calvert b1819 who married Sarah McGettigan, and lived in Strabane Ireland might have been a descendent of John Calvert,  lIsted in the family book as born in Yorkshire in 1587 and moved to Lurgan in 1610.  It is also suggested that John was active in the Quaker movement in Ireland. Then the book makes a big jump to "Hiram and his brother John (?Calvert-4122) being born in Moy or Charlemount area on the Blackwater River east of County Tyrone. John and Hiram moved to Strabane in the 1840 to work in the Iron and Brass Foundry." I have a DNA match to a descendent of Hiram and I am a descendent of John, so it is likely they were brothers, but I have no knowlege or source for their parents so can't "prove" a relationship.

Comments

The Irish Quakers team should be able to assist in a review of extant records.

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Hi,

We have at least three sets of Calvert Quakers in Ulster whom we have not yet succeeded in connecting up. These are [[Calvert-179|Thomas Calvert (1617-1685)]], [[Calvert-1203|Thomas Calvert (abt.1641-abt.1699)]] and [[Calvert-3532|Thomas Calvert (abt.1641-abt.1692)]]. There were Irish Quaker Calvert births, deaths and marriage right up until the most recent published data (about 1951), most of which we have still to add to wikitree. That said, I don't immediately see anyone who could be your John.

The family that you mention appears on FamilySearch here https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/MNSY-YD3. The sources linked to this tree (mainly the entries in Ireland, Births and Baptisms, 1620-1911 which you also cite) are from the Presbyterian Church which is relevant and interesting.

I am a little confused about the sources that you mention.

- If you have a marriage certificate for his daughter Martha, then why have you not entered the place or date of the marriage? (Camlachie, 1878 according to Scotland's People.) Given that it was a Scots marriage, the certificate should mention her mother's maiden name https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/guides/statutory-register-marriages#Interpreting%20content%20in%20statutory%20marriage%20records. Is this where Adams comes from? (I haven't paid to download the entry.)

- If you have a birth certificate for Joseph Calvert Beard then why is his date of birth 'about' and his place of birth just 'Scotland' (It was Camlachie according to Scotland's People).

- What does John Calvert's death certificate say? My understanding is the Scots death certificates for this period include the names of both parents (see https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/record-guides/statutory-register-deaths/#Interpreting%20content%20in%20statutory%20death%20records), which would certainly be interesting information if you are trying to trace his ancestry. (John Calvert died 1887 Camlachie on Scotland's People, mentions mother's maiden name Williamson. I have not paid to download the entry in the register.)

- How do you know that his wife's name was Rebecca Adams? You mention Ireland, Select Marriages, 1619-1898, which is a collection on FamilySearch, but I don't see the marriage there. And as with the daughter, if you have a marriage record, why not enter the date and place? The date of death that you give does indeed correspond to that of a Rebecca Calvert nee Adams (mother's maiden name Fausser) shown on Scotland's people. You cite the England census as a source, but I think that she was in Scotland.

- Did Annie Calvert marry James Cameron on 24 Jan 1868. The marriage register https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1868/11447/8205340.pdf seems pretty clear that she was Anne Culbert, daughter of John Culbert. The same maiden name (Culbert) appears on their children's birth registration eg here https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03430/2258871.pdf. However, I can also see the Scotland 1871 census which shows James and Anne Cameron with their daughter Rebecca and their father in law John Calvert all resident in Canonbie, Dumfries, although this shows that the latter was born in Ireland c 1816. I don't see this John Calvert in the 1881 census and it seems that he died in Canonbie in 1874 (mother's maiden name Wilson). As before, I have not paid to download the entry in the death register.

In short, the Irish Quaker Calverts are complicated. If your Calverts were Presbyterians from Ireland then they may or may not have been related to one of the Quaker families. To trace your ancestors back, I strongly suggest making as much as you can of the excellent Scots and Irish records available on Scotland's People and Irishgenealogy.ie, although the former cost some money and the latter don't go back quite far enough to cover the births that you are interested in. If you can be sure who your John Calvert was, then his Scots' death record should confirm his parents (and Rebecca's should confirm hers). This will give you firm ground from which to try to go back another generation.

Alan Watson (Ireland Quaker team)

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Alan Watson thank you so much for your thoughtful reply.  I think your suggestions are just what I needed to ffocus my work more on this branch. I had paid to access the Scotland's People records some years ago, but didn't make full use of my time.

Answer 1

Hi Cathi - I'm afraid I cannot find [[Calvert-4122|John Calvert (abt.1821-1887)]] or Hiram Calvert in the Quaker records.

It's unlikely that John or Hiram were descended from [[Calvert-746|John Calvert (abt.1580-1618)]] because the latter's male descendants all emigrated to America, as far as we know.

If John or Hiram did have Quaker ancestry, then they would more probably descend from one of the other two lines of Calverts who appear in the Irish Quaker records. One of those lines starts with [[Calvert-3532|Thomas Calvert (abt.1641-abt.1692)]] and the other with [[Calvert-1203|Thomas Calvert (abt.1641-abt.1699)]]. But as I said, I cannot find any proof that they were connected to either of these lines.