Comments on Joan (Clyfton) Chamberlayne

Question

On 2 Feb 2022 Frances (Piercy) Piercy-Reins wrote on Clyfton-3:

Data Doctors have quite rightly pointed out that Joan was too old to have been married to Saer de Raundes by 1310. The problem is that when Joan's profile was created, she was assigned vital dates which do not align with the documental evidence. When her dates are edited, which they should be, massive discrepancies show up, firstly with her second marriage date, and then with following generations down to the end of the 14th century at least. Can someone help with this? I think, when the profiles for this line were first created, there were inaccuracies from the start. Would love to collaborate on this project with anyone who has the time, and access to sources.

Answer 1

Frances if I understand correctly the birth year is probably just a guess. We could just remove it, but generally on Wikitree we are supposed to have a decent guess for either a birth or death year. Do you have any good way of making a reasonable estimate for either of those years? Please mention the primary evidence.

Comments

I think she was born in around 1200, based on the facts given in the sources provided in her profile. Do you think those are enough? I've highlighted the problems in the reference notes in her profile.

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But she married again between 1304 and 1310?

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And she was still alive in 1323? :)

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I've made a simple tweak. Not sure if that is good enough in the long run but perhaps it is enough for now?

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Thanks so much, Andrew. 

I discovered this as well, by chance, this afternoon. Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem: Edward II.   I got the info from British History Online about her marriage by 1310 (I don't think BHO is always reliable, do you?) This says that Joan was still called la Chamberleyn in 1314. She would have been called Joan de Raundes, if she'd married again by then, surely? 

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The switching of surnames was not always done in a strict way after marriages.

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Thanks. I had a feeling that might have been the case. The same thing happened with another Chamberlayne lady - later down the line in the late 1500s - she'd been the wife of a knight - so was called Dame Elizabeth Wellesbourne - married  Edward Chamberlayne MP, and kept her name after his death - recorded in a land deed.