How can I fix this profile for Sarah?

Question

On 1 May 2021 Becky Simmons wrote on Elliot-830:

Thank you...I was one of those who spent time formatting many of those sources on familysearch before joining and working on wikitree. I have been held up by this entire family line on our database here because a generation was skipped and then we had two men of same name married sisters of similar names and so on... Also- one thing I'm not sure if you mentioned (in your detailed comment) is that even if we disregard familysearch etc this profile says her name was Sarah Elliot, Elmore, George, Monroe (if I'm reading correctly). However there is no mention or sourcing for the "Monroe" name; only a sentence (as short as an afterthought) "She married 'Andrew Monroe'. She died...". All details and sources reference the Robert George marriage by stating Robert George married Sarah the widow of Thomas Elliot-  ( who is listed on here as her father) despite our listing the records of their marriage. The mother and daughter are possibly both named Sarah and someone could've easily mixed this up..or it could indicate two different families that need to split with at least son John George. If you hear anything about the profile and have time, I'd sincerely appreciate an update. Also contact me if you'd like my information on these couples as they were 8th and 9th great grandparents of mine. Any clarification or collaboration is appreciated as I haven't heard anything from my inquiries for this profile .. I know I am fallible and could have mistakes as well...but I'd like to clear them up. Cheers! Becky Elizabeth

 I wrote this along with other private and public inquiries and will list some sources here to show the records for birth of Sarah Elmore who married a Thomas Elliott and had issue but after he passed she married again to Robert George. I can't find anything about a Monroe marriage despite the "tags" on the profile either.

Nevermind as I am not allowed to copy and paste sources. Either way, I have helped authenticate over 15 on familysearch (please ignore the annoying Ancestry links). Also proper Findagrave ID is 61613139. 

  Since this effects so many generations linked through her it could potentially alter thousands of family trees so I really hope it gets noticed as those of us who commented on the profile have been ignored or I am not getting the messages. Thanks, Becky Elizabeth

Answer 1

It looks like the Thomas Elliot (the father) came in just after the cutoff for the PGM project, so I don't think we can slip this one in there to ask for their assistance. I'm not familiar with this family, so I can only offer basic advice without spending time doing a lot of research, which unfortunately I'm unable to do at the moment (busy with a few other priorities for the moment).

I'd take this one step at a time. Family Search profiles have so many non-genealogists who get in there and make changes without concern for the consequence to a one world tree that I have to verify everything before I presume it's correct. If you decide their information is valid, I'd begin the process of adding in the source citations first, then adjust to add any additional profiles. If you feel there's a missing generation, you can just "replace" father and "replace" mother, then be sure to do this for all affected siblings (so that no one is left out) and last, make sure to not forget the displaced mother and father, and I'm sure they need to be reconnected somewhere. It sounds like you already have the backing of the PM of the father, but always good to double-check as you don't want to create misunderstandings. -- Good luck.

Comments

Good Afternoon

   Thanks for being the one person to comment on my question- honestly I was surprised (happily) that someone took the time! I have waited to respond in case anyone else weighed in and because I have attempted to contact the profile manager and left public comments with sourcing multiple times as have at least two other members- and it has been several months since that started.

   Having said this, the information is correct with regard to the sources from familysearch and other places- in fact- I personally created several using tangible information and placed it in the wikitree citation machine. I think some confusion lies in the fact that there was a Thomas Elliot and a Thomas Elmore who both married a Sarah ____ but this Sarah, the younger as it is, married a Robert George and the marriage license and certificate give her name as Sarah Elliot but if you read closer she was a widow before this marriage and the first husband's surname was Elmore, thusly not her maiden name but first married surname. I know the details aren't pertinent to your family but leaving this out of my inquiry perhaps made it seem lack the basic knowledge to work on here but I have experience and education in the areas- I am just newer to wikitree and it's policies. I'd rather make triple sure of any rules or nuances before changing things than to assume and upset anyone and since there is a profile manager I feel making a huge change like the last name is a big deal...thusly I don't know the proper etiquette- and despite trying other places and persons, you are the only one to answer any questions related to this profile or changing connections/parents. I am always directed to the "rules of conduct" or "policies" of which I have already followed (written above) and then I contacted profile managers and commented on the profiles of the "connected parents" (with no responses)- I believe they were real people but there is no supporting evidence of them having a daughter named Sarah. Also both parents have a line of connected ancestors beyond them especially Thomas Elliott, the "father". This causes many people to have incorrect trees including myself and I can't match profiles using my GED.com upload nor can I see if other profiles can be connected to me....well you understand. I have done a search for Thomas Elmore- I know everyone is busy but even a response with quick advice on who I should direct this to would be so helpful. Gratefully, Becky Elizabeth (Simmons-11603)

Answer 2

Your post indicates that you want to "fix" her profile, but I am not clear about the "fix" you seek, or how you want to approach that work. 

Personally, I am not concerned that her WikiTree profile doesn't compare to a profile at FamilySearch FamilyTree. As As I suspect do all WikiTree collaborators, I am interested in having her genealogy and associations accurate on WikiTree. 

The problem with Sarah's profile seems to be one of identity. Have the records about more than one person, Sarah, been conflated into this profile?

Some thoughts about how I would approach this .... 

(1) According to the change log, at the time her profile was created (2013), she was the daughter of Thomas. No information concerning her marriage was added until 2017, and then only in the narrative, "She married Andrew Monroe. Her will was dated 25 July 1729 ....," citing "[https://archive.org/stream/genealogyofellio00elli#page/116/mode/2up/ Genealogy of the Elliott Family] Pg 116." Therein, the will is said to to name son John and daughter Sibella. 

The noted reference is otherwise (and in WikiTree markup), Leon D. Elliott, ''Genealogy of the Elliott Family'' ("printed in the United States," 1942), 116; digital images, [https://archive.org/details/genealogyofellio00elli/page/116/mode/1up?view=theater ''InternetArchive''].

There are three claims on the page referenced that seem operative. 

(i and ii) The father, Thomas, and his wife, Mary, "made their wills on the same date (1718) and in each they mention the other and also each of their children."

Where are their wills? What do they say? What name do they give to daughter Sarah? Is she, in 1718, Sarah Monroe?

(iii) The page also reports that Sarah made a will dated July 25, 1729, probated November 27, 1739. 

What does that will actually say. Was it made by Sarah Monroe? Does the will name her son as "John Monroe?" What name is listed for the "daughter Sibella." What is the full name in the will of the executor. (The 1942 passage also refers to her "Grandson John Elliott to be executor, Augusta County.")

After I had exhausted the work on these wills, then I would .... 

(2) Birth and Birth Vital. At the time this profile was created, her birth vital was entered as, 07 January 1668 at Yuc, Middlesex, Virginia. When the source noted above was added in 2017, her birth vital was not updated to match the source, which reports her birth as 1675 (presumably about 1675). 

How do we know that Thomas' daughter was born about 1675? 

Which "Sarah" was born on 7 January 1668 ...." 

The almost 10 year variance seems important, see item 5.  

(3) The identify of Andrew Monroe; the identity of children John and Sarah. 

(4) Death Vital. When the profile was created, her death was entered as 14 April 1734 at Christ Church Parish, Middlesex, Virginia, but "guess" was entered in the status field. 

Is there a death record? What does it say? If it doesn't say "Sarah Monroe" then how do we know that death record is about Sarah, the daughter of Thomas?

According to the 1915 source, above, the will of Sarah (dau. of Thomas, m. Anthony) was probated 27 November 1739. Assuming that date is correct, why would they have waited five years to present her will?  

After I had exhausted the work on that death record, then I would ... 

(5) Supposed 1687 marriage to Robert George. It looks to me as though this information was added to her profile in 2019, as part of the merge of Elmore-23 into Elliot-830. 

At first glance (having not seen the will/wills, having not seen a data regarding her death ...), based only on what was entered to the profile, this information does '''not''' seem to be about Sarah, the '''daughter''' of Thomas (as she was described in 1915), but about some other Sarah who was the '''widow''' of some Thomas. 

See item 2, if Thomas' daughter can be shown to have been born about 1675, then she would not have been the "Sarah Elliott" who married in 1687 to Robert George. (Thomas' daughter would have been too young.) 

Comments

Before I can read any of this seemingly negative and maybe even accusatory - I would like to say-  when a question is posed in the G2G forum it has to be summarized in a limited amount of characters and the details are placed in a larger text box. I don't recall choosing that as my shortened version but my given phone has automated suggestions, it is possible I simply hit "Enter" to quickly write my actual question. Everything is clearly outlined above with a very courteous, efficient and helpful response followed by a reply.

    I was not concerned with simply checking ancestor boxes but ensuring my family tree (shared with a lot of other people) was correct and I wanted to get other's opinions after seeing the documents I cited to make sure it was okay to propose a change. Even though the area was less populated it was still common to have men and women with the same names, especially within a family....as I am sure I don't need to explain. My DNA and family tree has a line through the last name George that goes to John George m. Mary and John was the son of Robert George and Sarah. I explained that I don't think it is the same family because there is no documented proof of our Sarah Elmore (Elliot, George) being married to a Monroe except for an excerpt in one of the cited books that says she married _ Monroe and died. Suffice to say I have every right to ask for thoughts on if this is two different people/families with a woman that has remarkably identical details or could we work together to separate which, if any, details aren't documented and look at creating this different line.

   I found the documents for the Sarah, mother of John George, who married Robert George and she is listed as (the widow Elliot) daughter of Thos.ELMORE. Reading this and then seeing it on the DAR page as well as other publications prompted me to research and evaluate my information because I originally had the maiden name as Elliot because it fell in line on the various sites like this one and I only recently began researching beyond her (Sarah) [i.e. her parents] There is a Thomas Elmore on either a birth or baptismal record from the same year in the ChristChurch,VA area (pulling strictly from memory so the city/parish may be different but is written out on the profile pages). I don't know why I've even written this much again when I've politely stated or asked the same things in the other places where I keep being directed.

   So Again- I thanked you for proposing the merge of said profiles and will do so again; Thank You! I asked politely if you or anyone involved would be willing to look at the new data along with the information put up by me and other users who questioned this Elmore/Elliot confusion (before I did) and I gave my contact on the pages hoping to work on something we all enjoy.  I was trying to make sure all active users relevant to these profiles had the same information like the marriage documents to Robert George that were put online only in the last two years or so... so we could further discuss if this is one or two people. This is supposed to be a collaborative project and I have had great experiences working with others on here when questions/new information arises.