Need someone with familiarity with Detroit/Canada area 1791

Question

Can someone with more knowledge of Canadian locations in 1791 please make the correction to the birth location for this profile?

She may also need location help with the marriage place.

Thanks so much!

Answer 1

Depends what you want to do with it.  Detroit was known as Fort Detroit under the French and the British.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Detroit

Answer 2

I've fixed the birth and marriage locations. From 1763 until 1791 when the Americans arrived it was part of the British colony known as "Province of Quebec".

Marriage date not given but first child born in 1806 and by then it was known as "Michigan Territory".

Comments

Dave, you must have done that while I was looking!  I agree on the Province of Quebec for that time period.  However, I believe Detroit became the Northwest Territory in 1784 by the Treaty of Paris in 1783.  If not, please correct my information.

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Dave, thanks so much.  I was working location suggestions in Ohio, which I have familiarity with, but not this area of Michigan that changed hands.  The suggestion was caused by having more than one place in the birth field separated with a "/".

Answer 3

Kathy, that place name is correct.  I've researched Detroit place named numerous times, using various sources.  Here's what I've found as most consistent:

1701 - 1763 Fort Pontchartrain du Détroit, Pays-d'en-Haut, Nouvelle-France

1763 - 1783 Détroit, Province of Quebec       

1784 – 1802 Detroit, Northwest Territory, United States

Comments

Thank you Cindy.  I'm going to note on the profile the Detroit, Northwest Territory with dates.  As I stated above, I was working Ohio location suggestions and came across this profile.

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Northwest Ordinance, which created the Northwest Territory, was enacted in 1787, but British did not relinquish Detroit to the Americans until July 1796.

Detroit became part of Indiana Territory in 1803 when Ohio became a state.

Became part of new Michigan Territory in 1805.

The whole tangled history is summarized here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Territory

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HI, Dave, I agree on the later periods of Indiana Territory and Michigan Territory.  Your points raise an interesting question of which location do you use - the rightful owner or the possessor?

The Treaty of Paris gave the United states as rightful owner in 1763.  I'm not sure what that area would have been called until the Northwest Territory was created in 1787.  I called it Northwest Territory until the Indiana Territory was designated.  Even though the British did not give up possession until 1796.  Which is considered more relevant - ownership or possession?

Then we would also need to identify the proper name for the 1812-1815 time period when the British captured and controlled the area.  Legally Michigan Territory but functionally Quebec.

We have similar issues in Acadia where the claimed or treatied owner did not actually possess the land because the people there did not give it up or the owner did not send in new government.  For the early days of Acadia, we have disputed ownership, both allowed.

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Hi Cindy,

I have been basing place names on possession. It is a fact that the population of Detroit during the 1783-1796 period would have identified as British and there was a British garrison present. When the US took possession there was a large evacuation of people who wished to remain British subjects. They settled on the south shore of the Detroit River, establishing the town of Sandwich at that time. (Now part of Windsor, Ontario)

The Canadian side of the river was part of Upper Canada after 1791. As for the War of 1812, the British forces only held Detroit for thirteen months, from August 1812 until Harrison recaptured it for the Americans in September 1813. That fall, the Americans took possession of Sandwich and much of the southwest of Upper Canada and held it until the end of the war. But in this case, the residents of Michigan and Upper Canada would have identified as such. During the war, the only British in Detroit or Americans in Upper Canada would have been occupying soldiers.

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Dave and Cindy, and this very illuminating discussion is why I asked for advice.  Thank you both for so much insight.

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' de d' Etroit' means 'of the strait' in French. Actually it ought to be 'des étroits' if there was more than one strait. Not too familiar with the geography. Note the 'd' is not capitalized. That would have been changed later.

Answer 4

I can add the Upper Canada Land Petitions to this profile which indicates land received by British for "Detroit River" - Here is the index. I'll add actual source records

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/land/land-petitions-upper-canada-1763-1865/Pages/List.aspx?Surname=Chabert&

DECHABERT	Philippe Louis Joncaire	Detroit River	1790	149	D 1	56		RG 1 L3	C-1742
DECHABERT	Philippe Louis Joncaire		1803	152	D 6	38		RG 1 L3	C-1743
DECHABERT	Phillipppe L. J.	Detroit River	1790	171	D Misc. 1788-1795	37		RG 1 L3	C-1885
Joncaire Chabert	François		1800	254A	I-J 5	4		RG 1 L3	C-2109

Comments

Thanks, Bruce,  this is exactly what collaborative genealogy is all about.

Answer 5

DECHABERT

Philippe Louis Joncaire

Detroit River

1790

149

D 1

56

RG 1 L3

C-1742

https://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/microform-digitization/006003-119.02-e.php?q2=29&q3=2413&sqn=870&tt=1252&PHPSESSID=k1o44oae8hbhe0ic6duf6ljtk2