Need help in linking pre 1700 Marets-11 to Du_Rieu-5 As spouse

+1 vote
218 views
Trying to link up my ancestors.  I believe Marets-11 is the 2nd spouse of Du-Rieu-5, wed in Norwich.  I believe Francois de Mares’ first spouse is Élisabeth Herbecq who died between 1601 and 1604.  Can I ask someone certified to review this information and, if correct, link the trees?

Thank you!
WikiTree profile: Phebe Desmaret
in Genealogy Help by Kathleen Ohlman G2G1 (1.4k points)
retagged by Kathleen Ohlman
Hi Kathleen, I've added some tags to your question to see if those projects want to have some input into your question.
Thank you!
well, Quebecois would have been appropriate tag to add also.  Paul Desmarest came here, married in 1681.
Sorry Danielle, I was looking at G2G during a break at work and knew there had to be a tag for Nouvelle France but couldn't work out quickly what that was, and ran out of time to look it up.  I'll try to remember for next time.

2 Answers

+3 votes
Hi Kathleen, what sources do you have for this?
by Living Poole G2G Astronaut (1.3m points)

https://www.ancestry.com/boards/surnames.demarest/285.2

I realize it’s a message board but they do cite sources and I’ve run across the same information in other searches I’ve done - though I don’t remember offhand where.  Many sources link the Desmarais/De Marets/Desmarets line back to the royal houses cited in that link.  Pretty much everywhere you look.

I don’t have the resources to verify the sources mentioned above but hoped someone else might. And be willing to volunteer their efforts.  

Unfortunately, it's not because it's "pretty much everywhere you look" that it is correct. This link is a bit hard to read and tells about different things and it's pretty mixed up.

The names Marais, Marest, Maretz, and other spelling variants, with or without des- or du- added at the beginning, are VERY common. I have Marais ancestors myself, which I can't trace further back than the 1660s, not because of lack of records but because there are two many Marais to be sure you've got the right one. I have no reason to suppose "mine" are noble, quite the contrary.

Anyway, this page is about the Huguenot Maretz who emigrated going through Wallonia and England. Nothing in common with a man who settled in Canada, New France, and they are certainly not related.
+5 votes
hello Kathleen,

I've just read through most of the message board you linked in other answer, and there is no evidence whatsoever on there that this woman is mother of Jacques Desmarets-5, about whom the only thing we have a source for is his son Paul's marriage record, which clearly states Jacques and his wife were already deceased in Paris.

The message board talks about a noble family in Cambray, Flandres, with an offshot fleeing to England at some point.  Nothing about Paris.

Much as I would like to add more ancestors to my tree, this one looks like a conflation by someone, the name Desmarest in all its variations is too common.  Paris archives went up in smoke in 1871, so no way to follow my ancestors there further right now.
by Danielle Liard G2G6 Pilot (663k points)
Thank you for your kind assistance!  I was referencing the part of the link where it talks about the 2 marriages of Francois De Mares (Desmarets-5).  This talks about the marriages between Francois and Elisabeth Herbecq and Phoebe du Rieu.  Among children mentioned in a transference in 1604 is “Jacques”.  Further cites Francois as father to Jacques de Mares.  

Looks like they cite French Church registries, family and Huguenot records, which I have no way of researching.  It also mentions Cambray (France).  

With respect, I do think this reference quite clearly implies lineage and cites reputable sources - I just have no way of verifying them.

I also have another source listing 2 marriages of Jacques (Phebe & Marie) in Paris France and showing birth of Jacques Desmarets.  How can I upload a picture of this source?

Thanks again!
Kathleen, have you looked in the french archives for records for him and the marriages?  I go here when trying to find something, and might be even easier if a registry is already cited (I didn't look specifically).

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:France_genealogical_resources#Departments_.28Archives_D.C3.A9partementales.29
Thank you.

https://www.prdh-igd.com/en/pionnier/20748 this is the PRDH free listing of the one in question who came here, as you can see he is born around 1656 in Paris.  

The message board has 2 brothers in early 1500s, one in England and the other in Holland or Cambray, and the last listing appears to be in the early 1600s.  Rather arduous reading, all smushed together as it is.

If you use this PRDH search engine https://www.prdh-igd.com/en/ListePionniers , and enter the name Desmarest to search with, it will bring up 6 different men whose name is Marest/Desmarais (and their variations) who came here.  The name is common.

While the link Cindy has given you is good for most places, Paris is a special case.  As I said previously, the Paris archives went up in smoke in 1871, so the majority of records of births, marriages and funerals disappeared then for that city.  Most of the remaining sources for establishing lineage there are the notarial records, which don't cover everything nor everybody by a long shot.  Most people never used a notary in their lives.

So to my mind, no, there is absolutely no evidence that Paul Desmarest who came here is in any way related to this noble family.

oh, and Phebe with a profile on WikiTree has a last name at birth of du Rieu, current last name (married name?) Desmarais.  So she would not be the Phebe mentioned in the message board.
Thank you so much!  How very frustrating!

Have split up the cited reference so more easily legible, the relevant section gives this:

(XV.) Jacques des Marets, founder of the Demares family in England, was born in the year 1519, and the fact that he was a brother of Jean des Marets, born 1518, founder of the Marees or de Marez family in Holland, has never been doubted. He fled during the religious and political persecutions by the Inquisition and the House of Hapsburg in the Netherlands with his family to Norwich, in England. This probably occurred in 1567. He and his family belonged to the Walloon Reformed Church at Norwich. Jacques des Marets died at Norwich in 1604, the same year when his brother Jean died at Amsterdam. His wife was Antoinette Suceur. In a power-of-attorney issued by his widow and heirs in 1604, he is called as having died at the age of eighty-five. This document was in 1732 in hands of Jacques Joseph de Marez se Sancourt, in the Land of Cambray. From the above named document it appears that Jacques des Marets, of Norwich, England, and his wife, Antoinette Suceur, had three sons, namely: Francois, Pierre (who died before his father) and Jean, of whom Francois de Marets and Jean de Marets with their families were living at Norwich in 1604. An excellent account of "The Walloons and Their Church at Norwich" is furnished by the late vice-president of the Huguenot Society of London, W. J.C. Noens (1888). 

(XVI.) Francois de Marets, or de Mares, as his name appears, was born about the year 1555. At Norwich he was a lieutenant of the Walloon Militia, a body to which the colonists were entitled. He probably lived the last years of his life at London, where most of his children are found registered in the French Church. Francois de Mares married twice. His first wife, Elisabeth Herbecq, died between 1601 and 1604. On December 24, 1604, he remarried at Norwich with Phebe du Rieu. Of the first marriage there were five, of the second, six children. Only the last child of the first and all the children of the second marriage were baptized in the Walloon Church of Norwich. On September 10, 1605, Francois de Mares transferred for himself and for his minor children, named Jacques, Jean, Elisabeth, Anna and Esther, represented by their guardians, Nicolas de Mares and Philip Carlier, to Jean de Mares, son of Nicolas, residing in the Land of Cambray, the fief of Cauroit, near Cambray, inherited by him from his father, Jacques de Mares, in 1604. Witnesses to this transaction were Nicolas de Mares and Louis de Mares, brothers. The children of Francois de Mares were: 1. Jacques, born about 1590 2. Jean, born about 1592 3. Elisabeth, born about 1598 4. Anna, born about 1598 5. Esther, born at Norwich and baptized there, May 24, 1600 Those of the second marriage were: 6. Daniel, baptized Dec. 8, 1605 7. Judith, baptized Jan. 4, 1607 8. Simon, baptized Aug. 28, 1608 9. Janne, baptized Aug. 26, 1610 10. Marie, baptized Aug. 11, 1612 11. Phebe, baptized Dec. 19, 1613

(XVII.) Jean desMarets m., possibly at or near Beauchamps, France, Margrieta deHerville, their son David was born about 1620 at or near Beauchamps, France. This begins the first generation of desMarets (Demarest) in America

This has nothing to do with Jacques Desmarets born in France who died in Paris before 1681, have therefore detached her from him.  She's no relation of mine.  And the last part about the ''first generation of desMarets in America'' is certainly not correct, there are as I said earlier 6 men of the name and variants known to come to Canada, New France, I have no idea how many may have gone to the English colonies.

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