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Hugh (Neville) de Neville (abt. 1170 - bef. 1234)

Sir Hugh de Neville formerly Neville
Born about in Great Hallingbury, Essex, Englandmap
Ancestors ancestors
Son of and
[sibling(s) unknown]
Husband of — married before 30 Apr 1200 [location unknown]
Husband of — married before Apr 1230 [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Father of and
Died before before about age 64 in Rochford, Essex, Englandmap
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Profile last modified | Created 21 Apr 2012
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Illustrious Men
Hugh de Neville was one of 16 Illustrious Men, counselors to King John, who were listed in the preamble to Magna Carta.
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Contents

Biography

Hugh de Neville

Hugh de Neville was one of the 16 "Illustrious Men" mentioned in the preamble to Magna Carta, "barons who were counselors to King John, [listed] immediately after listing the bishops ('venerable fathers'). William Marshal, Earl of Pembroke, was named first.... It is known to history that William Marshal and others of the king's counselors advised him to put his seal to the document. See this translation that lists the illustrious men."[1]

"He was King John’s Chief Forester, one of the great officers of state, and is named in Magna Carta as one of John’s officials – the men whom the chronicler Roger of Wendover referred to as the king’s 'evil councillors'."[2]

Vitals

Hugh de Neville of Great Hallingbury, Essex[3]
Father Ralph de Neville[3][4]
  • "apparently the son of Ralph de Neville, and a grandson of the notoriously unpopular chief forester of Henry II, Alan de Neville."[5]
  • "said to have been the son of Ralph de Neville (fl. 1170)"[6][7]
Born about 1170[8]
Married
  1. before 30 April 1200 to Joan de Cornhill, daughter of Henry FitzGervase de Cornhill and his wife Alice de Courcy[3]
  2. before April 1230 to Beatrice de Turnham, widow of Ralph de Fay, daughter and co-heiress of Stephen de Turnham[3] (no known issue)
Children by Joan de Cornhill:[9]
Died shortly before 21 July 1234 and was buried at Waltham Abbey, Essex. His widow, Beatrice, married (3) Hugh de Plaiz, Knt.[3]

Crusade with Richard I

Hugh de Neville, baron, was brought up "as an intimate" of Richard I.[10] In 1190, he accompanied the king on Crusade.[3]
1192: At siege of Joppa. Gives account to Ralph of Coggeshall.[11] Gets home safe while Richard gets imprisoned. On the king's release, Hugh accompanies him on his Normandy expedition in May 1194.[12]

Chief Justice of Forests

1198: Appointed chief justice of forests. During visitation, Roger Hoveden complains about his extortions.[13]
1199: Acts in same capacity ... used by Richard for negotiations with Cistercians.[14]
Early in John's reign, he's directed to exercise office as it had been during the reign of Henry II.[12]
1203: He witnessed the agreement for Queen Isabella's dowry (Rymer). From this time, his name constantly occurs in the 'Close' and 'Patent Rolls' as witness to grants, and as one of John's chief advisers.[15]
1208: Appointed treasurer. Adheres to John's struggles with the pope and barons. Matthew Paris calls Hugh one of the king's evil counselors.[12]
1213: Warden of the sea ports in the counties of Devon, Cornwall, Dorset, and Southampton.[16]

King John's Counselor at Runnymede

1215: Neville, his father-in-law Henry de Cornhill, and his son John, adhere to the king to the last. He was present at Runnymede, and signed the Magna Charta;[17] for his services to John he received from him numerous grants of land, including Comb-Nevil, Surrey, which had belonged to the Cornhill family.[18]

Joins Rebel Barons

On John's death, Neville joins the barons. He swears allegiance to Louis, hands him over the castle of Marlborough. For defection, he forfeits offices.[12]
1217: Lands in Lincolnshire granted to William de Neville (probably a relative). Before year end, Hugh makes peace and recovers most, if not all, his land.[19]

Buried in Waltham Abbey

Hugh was buried in Waltham Abbey, which he enriched by the grant of Horndon-on-the-Hill, Essex[20]

Research Notes

Seal: Several of Neville's charters are preserved in the British Museum (MSS. Nos. 54 B; 8, 9, 13, 14, 16, 17, 33, 35), and to two is affixed his well-known seal bearing a representation of a man slaying a lion. Matthew Paris gives the story of Hugh's encounter with a lion in the Holy Land, which was the origin of the seal.[12]

Confusion among various Hugh Nevilles.

Hugh de Neville's biography in the 1894 edition of the Dictionary of National Biography provides the following caution: "The number of Nevilles named Hugh and the absence of distinguishing marks between them render their biography largely a matter of conjecture. Members of the family were numerous in Yorkshire, Lincolnshire, and neighboring counties."[12][5]

David Crook's 26 May 2016 biography of Hugh de Neville in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography shows his death date as 1234.[5] The Wikipedia article for Hugh notes that his death date of 1222 was erroneously recorded by Matthew Paris,[21] which the 1894 biography lists as a citation for the 1222 death date: "(Matthew Paris, Chronica Majora, iii. 71; John of Oxenedes, s.a.)"[12] The Wikipedia article continues: "This error led some earlier historians to postulate two different Hugh de Nevilles – the forester and a son also named Hugh. This disproved theory then had the elder Hugh dying in 1222 and the invented son dying in 1234."[21]
Accordingly, he must be distinguished from 1.) Hugh, son of Ernisius de Neville, who guarded the bishop of Beauvais at Rouen in 1198 (Rog. Hov. iv. 401); and 2.) Hugh, son of Henry de Neville of Lincolnshire.[12]
  • Note: It may be that the 1182, Lincolnshire birth information is for the son of Henry (and ___ Ruffin?). Possibly also the daughter Joan m Cobham. (See discussion about Joan below.) ~ Noland-165 18:57, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

Confusion in Ralph's line (see this G2G discussion about Ralph Neville-183, b 1250). It appears to be the Lincolnshire line and goes back to Neville-1701 (b c1050), which notes on the profile that "Neville-1439 is often mentioned as a possible close relative, for example brother." Neville-1439 is Gilbert, born c1060, and is linked to this G2G discussion about early Nevilles. Gilbert Neville-1439, as of 6 January 2019, shows in WikiTree as the "second great-grandfather of Hugh" (this profile).

Currently, only one [Uncertain] is noted in the WikiTree trail from this Hugh to the profile attached as his great-great-grandfather (Gilbert Neville-1439), but I think more connections should be marked [Uncertain]. In the case of this Hugh's connection with the profiles of Neville-1434 and Rafin-1, I think they should be detached instead.
  1. Hugh is the son of Ralph (Neville-1434) de Neville [unknown confidence] suggest detaching profile (also detaching Rafin-1)
  2. Ralph is the son of Alan (Neville-1433) de Neville [unknown confidence] suggest change to [uncertain]
  3. Alan is the son of Geoffrey (Neville-802) de Neville [unknown confidence] (haven't looked at that connection closely)
  4. Geoffrey is the son of Gilbert (Neville-1439) de Neville [uncertain]

Unsupportable Birth Year: about 1182[22]

Hugh went on Crusade with Richard I in 1190,[3] which is not compatible with a birth year of "about 1182".
Possible Birth Locations:
  • Great Hallingbury, Essex, England[8][23]
  • Lincolnshire, England[22]

Unsourced mother:

Possibly ____ Rafin was the mother of the son of Henry named Hugh? Internet trees show a variety of possibilities, including Geni's entry for Ralph de Neville, which says he's of Lincolnshire, born 1154, married (2) Alice de Rafin, and with a son Ralph born 1178. Then text says Ralph born 1178 married ____ Rafin, daughter of Bertram, and was father of Hugh (died 1234). [The dates are impossible for this Hugh (died 1234, on Crusade in 1190).] Citation for the text in Geni is to thepeerage.com (entry for Hugh de Neville).
The following entry for a mother of Hugh was moved from the Vitals section of this profile:

Additional (unsourced) daughter:

Joan De Neville, born about 1216 died after 1275. She married John de Cobham about 1232.[22]

Death: 1234, not 1222 (as explained above).

Sources

  1. ↑ From WikiTree's Category:Illustrious Men (accessed 5 January 2019).
  2. ↑ Magna Carta Essex Conntections: Hugh de Neville (blog post 16 Mary 2015; accessed 5 January 2019)
  3. ↑ 3.0 3.1 3.2 3.3 3.4 3.5 3.6 3.7 3.8 3.9 Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham (Salt Lake City, Utah: the author, 2013), Volume II, pages 413-414 DE LA MARE #9. Joan de Cornhill
  4. ↑ Note: Richardson (previous citation) identifies Hugh's father only as "Ralph de Neville", with no additional information and no mention of a wife or who Hugh's mother might have been. In WikiTree, the profile attached as of 6 January 2019 for Hugh's father Ralph is Neville-1434 (b 1154), who is attached as son of Alan de Neville and Juliana Canu, his wife. That profile for Ralph, Neville-1434, has a note: "Need to fix lines ... mix-up with branches." with a link to this G2G question. See more under Research Notes (above).
  5. ↑ 5.0 5.1 5.2 David Crook (2016, May 26), "Neville, Hugh de (d. 1234), royal forester." Oxford Dictionary of National Biography Ed. (online; subscription required) accessed 5 January 2019
  6. ↑ Dugdale, Baronage, i. 288 (Pollard, citation above)
  7. ↑ "fl." means flourished, which normally means a man in his prime (at the time, that could mean anything from 25 up)
  8. ↑ 8.0 8.1 Hugh de Neville, Sheriff of Essex & Hertfordshire, "Our Royal, Titled, Noble, and Commoner Ancestors & Cousins" (website, compiled by Mr. Marlyn Lewis, Portland, OR; accessed 5 January 2019)
    • Note: Although it appears that Lewis cites Richardson as the source of Hugh's birth "about 1170", Richardson does not include birth information for Hugh. However, it is a reasonable estimate, based on Hugh accompanying Richard I on Crusade in 1190 (see Research Notes, above).
  9. ↑ Three children of Hugh de Neville and Joan de Cornhill are listed in Richardson's Royal Ancestry (citation above). An unsourced daughter Joan is listed by Genea Journey (see Research Notes, above).
  10. ↑ Matthew Paris (Pollard, citation above)
  11. ↑ Coggeshall, pp 45, 103; Matthew Paris, iii. 71; Itinerarium Regis Ricardi, p. xxxviii (Pollard, citation above)
  12. ↑ 12.0 12.1 12.2 12.3 12.4 12.5 12.6 12.7 Dictionary of National Biography, database online, entry for Hugh de Neville extracted from Albert Frederick Pollard, Internet Archive, (New York, Macmillan, Smith, Elder & Co., 1894), Vol XL, page 260-261; also posted online as a wikisource
  13. ↑ iv. 63 (Pollard, citation above)
  14. ↑ Coggeshall, p. 103 (Pollard, citation above)
  15. ↑ Rymer (Pollard, citation above)
  16. ↑ Madox, Exchequer, i. 650 (Pollard, citation above)
  17. ↑ Stubbs, Const. Hist. i. 581 (Pollard, citation above)
  18. ↑ Manning and Bray, i. 399 (Pollard, citation above)
  19. ↑ cf. his letter to his cousin Ralph in Shirley, Royal and Hist. Letters, i. 68 (Pollard, citation above)
  20. ↑ Matthew Paris, iii. 71; Dugdale, Monasticon, ii. 187; Farmer, Waltham Abbey, pp. 66–8 (Pollard, citation above)
  21. ↑ 21.0 21.1 Wikipedia: Hugh de Neville (accessed 5 January 2019)
  22. ↑ 22.0 22.1 22.2 22.3 Genea Journey: Neville of Raby, Durham, England, Line B (accessed 5 January 2019; no apparent sources for Line B)
  23. ↑ Richardson (citation above) calls Hugh "of Great Hallingbury, Essex" but does not say he was born there, nor does he attribute a location for his father, identifying him only as "Ralph de Neville" (although close scrutiny of the source list Richardson gives may yield a clue).
See also:
  • Page 142: "Hugh (son and heir of Ralph Nevil, found of the priory of Hoton, in Com. Ebor.) gave one hundred marks for the heir of Richard de Cornhill, a rich citizen of London, whom he afterwards married"







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[Living O'Brien]
NEVILLE HUGH Son and heir of Ralph de Neville, grandson of Alan de Neville

[BOF, page 21] 1208-1209. Buckingham and Bedford - De honore Peverelli de Dovor. De terra que fuit Willelmi Feugeriis. [F.n. 6] Hugo de Nevill' tenet custodiam per regem. [Footnote - The lands of William de Fougeres were in the king's hands in 1207. Those in Buckinghamshire consisted of Twyford.] [BOF, pages 142, 147, 148, 179] 1212. Isti tenet per sergantiam in comitau Staff’. Hugo de Nevill’ tenet foresteriam de Canoe cum pertinenciis unde Hugo de Logiis, quondam forestarius, consuevit reddere ad scaccarium x.m. per manum suam. Salop - Hugo de Nevill' tenet manerium de Straton de bailliva domini Regis Johannis quod solet reddere iiij or supradictum est. Nottingham and Derby - In Wdeburg' est j. bovata terre de dominico Rogeri de Arnhal’ quam Hugo de Nevill' tenet infra firmam de Arnhal' de dono domini Regis Johannis, que respondet de xxviij.s. x.d. Lincoln - In Hal et Ingoldesby tenet Hugo de Nevill' crassus de eodem feodo feodum j. militis. [BOF, page 254] 1219. Berks – Hundredo de Kenetibir’. Jacobus Wack esse debet in custodia domini regis et est in custodia Hugonis de Nevilla, et terra eius quam tenere debet de domino rege in Benham et in Boxora valet xij cim 1. [CPR HIII] December 1222 Woodstock. Hugoni de Nevill, custodi foreste Norhamtonie, pro foresta de Clive. Hugoni de Nevill, custodi foreste de Bokingham, et foreste de Brikestok, et de foresta de Brehull. [CFR HIII] 23 March 1223 Berkeley. Essex. Order to the sheriff of Essex that since Hugh de Neville has mainperned to render £40 to the king at the Exchequer each year at the terms that the king assigned to him for the fine he made with him for the debts he owed him, he is to cause no distraint to be made, or permit it to be made, until he has order otherwise. [CPR HIII] January 1224 Westminster. De forestariu Anglie commissa Hugoni de Nevill. Sciatis quod attomavimus dilectum et fidelem nostrum Hugonem de Nevill ad saisinam forestarie nostre capiendam donee alias de consilio fidelium nostrorum providerimus, quem capitalem justiciarium foreste nostre constituere velimus. Et ideo vobis mandamus quod interim eidem Hugoni in omnibus que ad dictam forestariam pertinent, intendentes sitis et respondentes. In cujus etc. Teste me ipso, apud Westmonasterium, xvij die Januaorii, anno regni nostri octavo. Appointment of Hugh de Neville as chief justice of the forests throughout England. [CPR HIII] August 1224 London. Pro Hugone de Nevill. Mandatum est militibus, liberis hominibus, et aliis tenentibus de medietate manerii de Stokescurcy quod in omnibus que ad ipsam medietatem pertinent, intendentes sint et respondentes Hugoni de Nevill. Teste rege, apud London, xxvij die Augusti, coram justiciario et Bathoniensi episcopo. Mandatum est vicecomiti Sumersete quod castrum de Stokescurcy sine dilatione eidem Hugoni liberet; Teste ut supra. [CPR HIII] June 1226. De castro de Lutegareshal. Dominus rex commisit Hugoni de Nevill custodiam castri de Lutegareshal cum pertinenciis suis quamdiu domino regi placuerit. Et mandatum est Roberto de Meysy quod predictum castrum ei liberet, sicut predictum est. In cujus etc. Teste rege, apud Wintoniam, xxiij die Junii. Hugh de Neville granted custody of Ludgershall Castle, county Wilts. [CFR HIII] 3 July 1226 Westminster. Buckinghamshire. The king has committed the manor of Brill with appurtenances to Hugh de Neville, to be held for as long as it pleases the king, so that he answers for it by his hand at the Exchequer. Order to the sheriff of Buckinghamshire to cause Hugh to have full seisin of the aforesaid manor without delay. Dorset. It is written to the sheriff of Dorset in the same manner, concerning the manors of Gillingham and Powerstock with appurtenances, committed to the same Hugh for as long as it pleases the king, so that he answers for them at the Exchequer by his hand. Order to the sheriff of Dorset to cause Hugh to have full seisin of those manors with appurtenances etc., saving to the sheriff the corn of those manors and of others, and other things for which he is ready to answer at the Exchequer at Michaelmas in the tenth year. [CPR HIII] January 1227 Oxford. Dominus rex commisit Hugoni de Nevill moram de Dertemor cum castro de Lideford et villa de Lideford cum pertinenciis suis, custodienda quamdiu domino regi placuerit. Et mandatum est W. Briwer quod custodiam predicte more cum castro predicto et villa predicta et omnibus pertinenciis suis, sicut predictum est, eidem Hugoni habere faciat. In cujus etc. Teste ut supra. Hugh Neville appointed keeper of Dartmoor and constable of Lydford Castle. [CFR HIII] 10 May 1229 Fulham. For Hugh de Neville. To the barons of the Exchequer. The king, for himself and his heirs, has pardoned and quitclaimed to his beloved and faithful Hugh de Neville and his heirs, for his faithful service, up to the sum of 500 marks of the 5000 marks by which Hugh made fine with King John, father of the king, for having his grace and benevolence, and £83 16s. 6½d. that are exacted from him at the Exchequer of the 200 marks by which he made fine with the king’s father for having seisin of the vill of Wakering, of which the king’s same father disseised him by his will, and of the 1000 marks that are exacted from him of the time of King John, father of the king, because he permitted Peter, bishop of Winchester, to enclose the park of Taunton without warrant, so that Hugh is to render 50 marks of these 500 marks to the king at Michaelmas in the thirteenth year and then 50 marks twice yearly until the aforesaid 500 marks are paid. Order to cause this to be done and enrolled thus. [CFR HIII] 16 January 1230 Huntingdon. Hugh de Neville has made fine with the king by 20 marks for having seisin of the land formerly of Peter Mimecan in Shotover with the bailiwick formerly of the same Mimecan (sic.). Order to Brian de Lisle to cause him to have full seisin of the aforesaid land with the aforesaid bailiwick and all its appurtenances. [CFR HIII] 1232 Woodstock. Hugh de Neville has respite, until 15 days from St. John the Baptist in the sixteenth year, from the demand for scutage that the sheriff of Somerset makes from him by summons of the Exchequer for the king’s army of Poitou after his first crossing, so that, in the meantime, he might collect the scutage from his knights and free tenants, for which he ought to answer at the Exchequer. In the meantime the sheriff is to cause his livestock taken for this reason to be replevied to Hugh. [CPR HIII] 3 September 1233 Hay. Mandate to all sheriffs to cause proclamation to be made that no one shall receive or permit to be received in their inn, Richard Siward or Warin Basset, who have renounced their fealty and are the king's capital enemies; and they are to aid Hugh de Nevill in pursuing and taking the said Richard and Warin and other malefactors passing through their bailiwicks.

posted by [Living O'Brien]
[Living O'Brien]
Hugh “Crassus” de Neville [1] was the son and heir Erneise I de Neville, [living 1176 ] [2] a royal justice in the time of Henry II, was so called in the records to distinguish him from Hugh de Neville, chief justice of the forests 1198-1216, reappointed 1224-1229, the grandson of Alan de Neville, chief justice of the forests 1166-1176. Hugh “Crassus” married Desiree, the daughter of Stephen de Camera.”

Confirmation of the marriage of Hugh “Crassus” to Desiree de Camera can be found by the following entry. [3] “12 November 1235 King’s Cliffe. Grant to Ernisius de Neville, and his heirs, of the all the land late of Stephen de Camera, which Hugh de Neville, father of the said Ernisius, had of the gift of King John with Desiderata his wife, the daughter of the said Stephen and the mother of the said Ernisius. -------------.”

[1] “The Making of the Neville Family in England 1166-1400,” by Charles R. Young, published 1996. – This work must be considered a secondary reference therefore subject to cross-reference to a primary source. [2] “Great Roll of the Pipe for the 22nd year of the reign of King Henry the Second: A.D. 1175-1176:” Published by the Pipe Roll Society. Page 23. Buckingehamscri’ er Bedefoedscr’ - Ernisus de Neuill' redd. comp. de .x. I. pro eodem. In thesauro .c. s. Et debet .c. s. [3] “Calendar of the Charter Rolls,” volume 1, 1226-1257. Page 214

posted by [Living O'Brien]
[Living O'Brien]
NEVILLE FAMILY, CHIEF JUSTICES OF THE FORESTS

With reference to the ODNB –Volume 40, pages 480-481, 503-504. Neville, Alan de (d. c. 1176) by David Crook. “Administrator, probably took his name from Neuville in Normandy and would be best remembered by history for the vigour which he enforced the forest laws, resulting in him becoming widely hated both by men of high rank as well as churchmen. He first appears in the records as the butler of Waleran of Meulan in Normandy, about the time he married a daughter of a baron of the honour of Pont Audemar. In about 1153, Alan switched his allegiance to the Angevins and was rewarded with grants of land and other favours by Henry II. He may have become involved in forest administration by 1159 and about 1166 appointed as the king's chief forester, a position that he held until his death. It is not certain whether he was related to other families by the name of Neville already established in England prior to 1154.” Neville, Hugh de [d.1234] by David Crook. ‘Royal forester, was apparently the son of a Ralph de Neville, and a grandson of the notoriously unpopular chief forester of Henry II, Alan de Neville. Hugh performed many governmental tasks, but the most important of the was the execution of his office as chief justice of the forest, or chief forester, under Richard I and John, continously from 1198-1216, and again under Henry III from 1224 to 1229. According to Matthew Paris, he was brought up at the court of Henry II as an intimate of Richard. His service to the crown, however, began at the end of Henry’s reign.. Neville’s position during John’s reign was very powerful, since he was one of the king’s closet advisers and agents, but his relationship with his royal master was a turbulent one. He witnessed the Magna Carta in 1215 but before John’s death joined the baronial party, to whom he brought the possession of Marlborough Castle. From Richard I, he also received Joan, daughter of Henry de Cornhill as his wife. He paid 100 marks for her custody in 1194, and the marriage eventually brought him a half share of the barony of Courcy through his wife’s mother, Alice de Courcy. HIS SON JOHN, WHO FOLLOWED HIM AS CHIEF JUST OF THE FORESTS BETWEEN1235 AND 1244 AND DIED IN 1246. Neville had another son, Henry, who predeceased him in 1218 AND AT LEAST ONE DAUGHTER JOAN.

His son John, who followed him as chief justice of the forests between 1235 and 1244 and died in 1246. Neville had another son, Henry, who predeceased him in 1218 AND AT LEAST ONE DAUGHTER JOAN."


CALENDAR FINE ROLLS. “The Fine Rolls Project of HIII”. ©2009 The National Archives and King's College London." 27 August 1224. London. The fine of Hugh de Neville. Hugh de Neville has made fine with the king by 100 m. for having a moiety of the manor of STOGURSEY with the castle of Stogursey, and with a moiety of the service of knights and others pertaining to the said moiety, which falls to JOAN WIFE THE SAME HUGH BY HEREDITARY RIGHT, and he has given the king surety for this. Order to the sheriff of Somerset to cause Hugh to have full seisin without delay of the aforesaid moiety of the same manor with the castle and with the moiety of the knights and other things pertaining to the same moiety, as aforesaid, by the view and testimony of law-worthy men of his county, saving to the king the chattels, stock, corn and the corn of this autumn found there.

posted by [Living O'Brien]
Noland-165 Liz (Noland) Shifflett
Note: It was recently clarified that span ids are not allowed with sources. (See this G2G discussion.)

From Help:Recommended_Tags:

<span id="..." ... - used to create an anchor for a link - see Adding Links. This is not approved for styling purposes or with sources.

So.... this profile is now on my to-do list to re-do. If anyone wants to jump in and work on changing the citations to not use [[# and <span id, please do.

Thanks!

posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
Noland-165 Liz (Noland) Shifflett
update: finished edit.

I'll be editing this profile to correct dbe 864 "nearly empty ref tags" - https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:DBE_864 - and also to make the genealogical info a bit more accessible (this reads more like a wikipedia article than a WikiTree profile).

posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
Athey-67 Darlene (Athey) Athey-Hill
Jim Weber has her as daughter, but no sources attached. He closely follows the soc.genealogy.medieval posts. For now, I would leave her attached and mark the relationship uncertain unless someone has proof that she isn't a daughter. See: https://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=jweber&id=I11913
posted by Darlene (Athey) Athey-Hill
[Living Ogle]
Need a valid source for alleged dau. Joan.
posted by [Living Ogle]
Noland-165 Liz (Noland) Shifflett
thanks Rick! If your edits resolved the source check/review "needs", go ahead and remove them from the template (and add back "|category=Illustrious Men" which will override the automatically added Category:Magna Carta Project Maintenance Profiles & remove it too.

Cheers, Liz

posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
Noland-165 Liz (Noland) Shifflett
update - the Magna Carta Project created a project box for the Illustrious Men, so that it could properly be manager of their profiles.

Hi! Because this profile is not eligible for the Magna Carta project box, the Magna Carta Project cannot be its manager. Therefore, I dropped the project to just trusted list (profiles with the Magna Carta Project sticker need to be monitored by the project but cannot be managed by it).

Could you add the appropriate EuroAristo project account as manager?

Please contact me if this is not feasible & I'll work on getting a fourth Magna Carta project box for the Illustrious Men.

Thanks, Liz ~ Project:Magna Carta

posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett

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