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Ermintrude (Ferrers) Talbot (abt. 1163)

Ermintrude Talbot formerly Ferrers
Born about in Derbyshire, Englandmap
Ancestors ancestors
Wife of — married [date unknown] [location unknown]
Wife of — married [date unknown] [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died [date unknown] [location unknown]
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Profile last modified | Created 20 Mar 2015
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Biography

Daughter of Walcheline de Ferrers and Goda de Toeni. Wife of Robert de Talbot.

1229, "Consimiles literas habet Ermentruda Talebot ad debita sua acquitanda et Johannes Talebot ad se sustentandum." (Google translate: Talbot Ermentrude has like letters to their debts, acquit and John Talbot to support himself.) [1]
7 Oct 1235, "For Ermintrude Talbot. Order to the sheriff of Bedfordshire and Buckinghamshire to place in respite, until Easter in the twentieth year, the demand that he makes from Ermintrude Talbot, who is in overseas parts by the king’s licence, for suits of the county and hundred and aid of the sheriff." [2]

Notes

Seems to have been conflated with the Ermentrude, who should be daughter of Robert fitz Walkelin, and that Ermentrude's grandmother Ermentrude. I don't think there's evidence this father even exists, nor his marriage to Goda de Toeni, nor that Ermentrude was a Ferrers.

1229, "Consimiles literas habet Ermentruda Talebot ad debita sua acquitanda et Johannes Talebot ad se sustentandum." (Google translate: Talbot Ermentrude has like letters to their debts, acquit and John Talbot to support himself.) [3]
7 Oct 1235, "For Ermintrude Talbot. Order to the sheriff of Bedfordshire and Buckinghamshire to place in respite, until Easter in the twentieth year, the demand that he makes from Ermintrude Talbot, who is in overseas parts by the king’s licence, for suits of the county and hundred and aid of the sheriff." [4]

Sources

  1. Calendar of Patent Rolls, Henry III, vol. 2, p. 262 [1]
  2. Fine Roll C 60/34, 19 HENRY III (1234–1235) [2]
  3. Calendar of Patent Rolls, Henry III, vol. 2, p. 262 [3]
  4. Fine Roll C 60/34, 19 HENRY III (1234–1235) [4]
  • A Genealogical and Heraldic Dictionary of the Landed Gentry of Great Britain & Ireland: A to L, p 409 [5]




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Comments: 6

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I'm not a genealogist, and have limited access to sources, but I think I have a direction to possibly look for Ermintrude's origins. In the book, "The English Ancestry of Peter Talbot of Dorcester Massachusetts" by J Gardner Bartlett (here: https://archive.org/details/englishancestryo00bartrich/page/6/mode/2up?view=theatera), on page 6 under the listing for Robert Talbot b1170 [Talbot-122], he lists Robert's wife Ermintrude as "daughter and co-heir of Robert de Ferrers (a son of Walcheline de Ferrers, a younger son of the Earl of Derby) ; she brought to her husband the Manor of Eggington, co. Derby. (See "Visitation of Yorkshire 1666", p. 236; also "Pleadings in the Exchequer Rolls", 13 Henry III., roll 13.)" From the Ferrers pedigree (without notes & corrections) on the listing for her linked father Walcheline [Ferrers-400] there is a Walkeline listed as a son of Robert de Ferrers who d1162. Because Ermintrude is listed by Bartlett as bringing a stake in Eggington, and because Eggington pretty clearly comes via William de Grendon (who married an Ermintrude Talbot)

(as noted here: https://www.british-history.ac.uk/magna-britannia/vol5/pp142-164) it seems highly likely that Ermintrude Ferrers, daughter of Robert son of Walcheline son of Robert the 1st Earl, FIRST married William de Grendon [Grendon-30], having daughter Margaret who maintained an interest in Eggington through her father, and then, when William died in 1203, married Robert Talbot and bore his several children, including the William who apparently (per this discussion (https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/n5_m5R2sg8c) sued Margaret to attempt to gain some control over Eggington (likely thru his mother). This would need further research to positively prove, which I cannot undertake, but seems interesting and plausible. It would seem this Ermintrude is still not the Ermintrude "Talbot" who married Henry FitzGerold [FitzGerold-24], since Henry FitzG died in 1231 and Robert Talbot perhaps as late as 1233, and Henry FitzG's daughter Alice was likely born before that time. (e.g. without a divorce it seems unlikely Ermintrude married Henry FitzG after Robert Talbot - but maybe they had a fling.)

posted by Dan Roe
Ermentrude was a Talbot AND NEVER a Ferrers!

'Henry Fitz Gerold, who succeeded to Kingston Lisle in 1218, married Ermentrude Talbot and had a son and heir Warin alive in 1254. (fn. 102) Warin evidently died without issue, for Alice, the daughter of Henry, (fn. 103) was his ultimate heir. She married Robert de Lisle of Rougemont (fn. 104) and had two sons Robert and Gerard. '

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/berks/vol4/pp311-319

'The Complete Peerage shows “Henry FitzGerold d. circa 1231” as the younger son of Henry FitzGerold in a table[535]. m ERMENTRUDE Talbot, daughter of ---. The Complete Peerage shows “Ermentrude Talbot” as the wife of Henry FitzGerold in a table[536]. Henry & his wife had three children: Wm., Warin & Alice' http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/enguntdk.htm#_Toc36368842

posted by Nancy Yeager
Talbot-817 and Ferrers-409 appear to represent the same person because: same husband, same biography, same sources. dates need to be reconciled.
posted by Dan Norum
Should this read: Ermentrude (Talbot) formerly de Ferrers since Talbot was her last married name?
posted on Talbot-817 (merged) by Bernard Savage
Should settle on a birth estimate and merge Talbot-817 into Ferrers-409.
posted on Talbot-817 (merged) by Jason Clark
Should settle on a birth estimate and merge Talbot-817 into Ferrers-409.
posted by Jason Clark

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