I guess its time to quit using Wikitree

Question

Its been a good run, almost 7 years and lots of cousins met and friends made. (I apologize for this lengthy post, but, I felt that all that time and all these people deserved an explanation.)  Many thanks to Chris and the wikiteam for all of that! However, it has been increasingly obvious to me that the wikitree tent is growing smaller and I no longer fit inside.

Gone are the early years where a more friendly, more collegial atmosphere was the norm. Apparently gone is the attitude that we can all work in our own way towards the common goal.

Because I tend to work in the gray,  unproven, outer edges of my family tree, my preferred method includes time lines and explanatory notes for other readers (cousins & fellow researchers) to help fully understand exactly how and why  I have arrived at the conclusions presented in that particular profile (and why that profile is linked to these particular parents, spouses, siblings etc...). I remember the old days when Eowyn wrote how much she appreciated my notes giving my degrees of certainty for sources etc... But wikitree has moved on while I'm still the same old form over function researcher.

I've always believed that on old handcrafted, backwoods, log cabin church performed the same function as a massive, ornate, gothic cathedral--AND that the log cabin could be just as beautiful and elegant in its simplicity as that cathedral AND have the hope that the parishioners attending either church would be able to recognize their commonality of purpose for attend those churches. Foolish me.

My goal during my time at wikitree has been to strive for the most accurate, well resourced family connections to be found on the web. My hope was that those connected families would attract others to join here and continue the effort. For instance, this is why I side-branched off of the massive project I'm working on to spend the time to outline some of the family members tangentially involved in that project.

I foolishly thought that having this available to my cousins and potential fellow researchers https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Burris-2178  instead of this vast amount of information https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/LKS3-27Z would be beneficial to me (and to wikitree) regardless of the STYLE I choose to present my information in.

I thought that clarifying the confusion that is presented here https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/276F-3CM  and the conflation here https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/37028578 with my ugly 'non-preferred style' here https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Tilton-1719  might also produce similar benefits....again, foolish me and I now wish I hadn't wasted my precious time on any of this.

The project mentioned above is the result of years of researching the Frost's, Tilton's, Hardesty's, Clow/Clough/Claw/Clowe's, Burris/Burrough/Burrow's ( I read Carrie's post with deep empathy! https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/996668/burrows-burroughs-oh-my), Barcas/Barcus/Barkus's and a host of other allied families who settled a portion of the Northwest Territory that became the central eastern counties of Ohio.

I've  collected volumes of data and have multiple spiral notebooks full of pencil scribbled family trees to help me 'attempt' to organize my thoughts/suspicions/speculations etc...  I had finally reached a point where I was going to start assembling profiles for these families---to sort of start putting the puzzle pieces on the table for another view to check again if it all made sense etc... To share my raw research with other researchers with the hopes of that thing we used to do here...collaboration.

This is where I encountered my proverbial straw.

I made a G2G post (which I utterly regret) ( https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/991092/research-assistance-delaware-virginia-ohio) hoping to find some assistance from a local 'boots-on-the-ground'  person or someone who had other on-line sources I was unaware of to get at some original documents that could confirm/deny the 2nd hand info I had located and possibly be picked over to glean other info or avenues of research.  Instead, I got an individual who provided nothing of what I was asking for, but  felt it necessary to immediately jump into the middle of my research and on a two day old profile to start altering my notes and converting it into a narrative style (https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Clow-441&diff=99595167&oldid=99519547

Then this individual felt it necessary to create the profile for Joshua Clow's father, of course with a narrative style complete with a source to wikipedia, the wikipedia source then used to go back to Joshua's profile and alter the information I was trying to develop.

I had though that a resolution had been achieved and this individual was beginning to see that 'research' was somewhat different than 'final product' and 'preferred style' did not necessarily mean ONLY style. However this individual is apparently going to shadow everything I'm doing (from my perspective --interfering with and interrupting my work flow/thought processes completely) and has now gone to the next level here https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Burris-2175 again editing my notes into a narrative so that this individual can 'teach' me what the ONLY way is to write a "wikitree style bio".

This entire episode has been hugely frustrating for me. I have tried (and sometimes failed) to be polite and respectful, unfortunately, my small brain doesn't have room for both clear analytical reasoning and anger so I have simply ceased in all attempts to communicate and just stopped all of my efforts here in general.

My conclusions are that the strident orthodoxy of this and other wikitreer's is supported by Chris and the wikitree leadership and that this is the newer more evolved wiktree----and that I no longer belong here. I simply cannot function well in what I perceive to be a somewhat hostile environment, have no desire to change my natural state of congeniality for one more confrontational, cannot change how I think or work and am absolutely no longer having FUN. Fun was the fuel that kept my going for all these years and why I looked  forward everyday to my dose of wikitree.

I'm considering going back to MyHeritage (where I started all those years ago, before I found wikitree) or going to familysearch, ancestry or---- I'm wide open to all suggestions of sites y'all have experience with where research is not frowned upon or disallowed. Please, let me know!

I will still log in to wikitree to accommodate trusted list requests and merges etc.... new stuff will just be elsewhere.

Cousins, any branches you want to take over, just let me know & I'll be happy to set you to PM. If any of you cousins or fellow researchers wish to continue the research, I've tried to link the profiles I was working on so you can 'bounce' from one to the other and compare notes, confirm/deny relationships etc... The answers to the age old question of the LNAB and the ancestors of https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Unknown-243553  and who the parents are of https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Burris-1946  are just the tiniest tip of the iceberg of the things I expect you'll  find in your research. My best advice is to take your time, these families are intensely intertwined , LNABs are extremely variable and the sheer number of connections can quickly become overwhelming.  I'll try to stay in touch once I find my new home.

Edited to add this BTW: I sent an e-mail to the PM of Burris-1946's profile on March 3rd asking permission to add some research notes to her profile--I'll forward his reply when I get it to anyone wishing to continue.

Leader edit: Foul/derogatory phrase removed.

Comments

I gotchya Eddie, and if you understand the gist of my issues with function vs form, you'll understand that a few typos in the 'official' text are waaaay down on the list of attributes that are going to make or break my choice to go there.

Thanks again for your time to give me a heads-up. I appreciate it.

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@ John Alexander, please take a look at Joshua Clow .

Does that offend your genealogical sensibilities? Did I create/share too soon? Should I have waited until I KNEW everything about ALL the interlinked people? Is this just flat-out NOT wikitree worthy?

I value your opinion and insights.

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I think it would be a shame if you left because of something like this.

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Nick, I also hope you will reconsider. I'm sorry you've had a bad experience. Is it really worth leaving for?

As for WeRelate, I started there before coming here. While their sourcing methodology is far superior to Wikitree's, they have no where near the active and supportive community that Wikitree has (despite Nick's and Eddie's recent experiences) and there is no evidence that its founder Dallan is actively involved with or developing the platform further.  He's moved on to other things.

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We just had lunch with Dallan last week. Jillaine is correct. WeRelate will stay up but he has moved on to other projects (that sound really cool).

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Dallan started a new site a year or so ago. Dunno exactly when. Cool!

http://www.rootsfinder.com/

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Yep, that was sold to FindMyPast.

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for Nick

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IypSqKgmpdU

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I am new to wikitree but in my opinion it has tons and tons  of potential but can be very very frustrating.  Sometimes people dont word things correctly.   I was told a  Birth Certificate is not a " source".   What they should have said is that a Birth Certificate is not a source with a  " Link"   that you can post on here as a source but a Birth Certificate is absolutely a Source.

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I'm pretty new here, and am still learning, I doubt very much that the biographies I have created follow a style guide.

They are all a work in progress, I have lots of information for some people, almost none for others, and many where I don't have a story to tell about them.

It is my personal opinion that a biography should be more than a list of places the person lived taken directly from Census results. Another thing it shouldn't be is a copy paste from Ancestry's life story. I was surprised to see many of them on WT.

The story part is what makes it interesting. And the research is almost always not 100% finished.

I am about half way through adding my ancestors basic info and will then go back and add more to their stories.

Answer 1

Nick --

It's unfortunate that Leaders and Mentors weren't made aware of this problem before you got to a level of frustration that made you feel like leaving. 

"I guess this is my MIR and how wikitree leadership responds will determine my outcome" 

This is not your MIR. The appropriate action to take is to walk through the Problems with Members process on the Help menu (this is for those who don't know where it is; I'm aware that you do know where it is because we just discussed this last week). 

Publicly outing another member who has made an error in judgment is not the appropriate action to take.

Members are free to format profiles in a variety of ways. There is no single style enforced other than having standard headings in a certain order as described on https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Biographies.

If others are experiencing edits by self-appointed "style police," Mentors, Mediators and Leaders won't be able to help you unless you let us know there is a problem. 

We all have lives outside of WikiTree and act as Mentors, Mediators and Leaders on a volunteer basis. We depend on members taking a certain amount of responsibility for how the community evolves because the few of us who volunteer as Mentors, Mediators and Leaders cannot possibly be involved in day-to-day activities of all the members who participate here.

Answer 2

Looking at the changes that were made, I can see why you're upset. Even leaving the other issues aside, the format that the Burris-2175 was edited into violates the recommended Wikitree style. A Research Notes head in the middle of the bio? I think your editor should review the help pages before presuming to teach others.

I do hope you'll reconsider. With all the garbage that gets slapped on here daily, we need careful researchers such as yourself to continue the hard work of real genealogy.

Comments

Stu, 

Thanks for the note. While Cheney Clow is a figure of some small historical notoriety, I just can't seem to express well enough that AT THIS TIME, I care very little about that  and writing up a biography detailing that notoriety is not where I'm at as I am primarily interested in using those historical references available to weed and winnow out any data of genealogical import to prove/disprove the connections I was attempting to make.

You're right, real genealogy is hard and it does take time and trying to do it while conforming to someone else's sense of STYLE  or expectation of an instant finished product makes it near impossible for me.

Answer 3

Nick, first of all, I absolutely think that if it's not fun, you should quit doing it.  After all, genealogy is a hobby, right?

But if it's one person spoiling your fun, why let that drive you away from WikiTree if you otherwise enjoy it?  Have you considered filing an MIR?  

If you are looking for a site where no one will mess with your work, I recommend Ancestry.  It has a huge record collection, and a large user base among whom you might find many cousins to share information with.  I plan to always use both Ancestry and WikiTree.

Comments

Thanks Julie, 

I guess this is my MIR and how wikitree leadership responds will determine my outcome.

I should have been more clear ...genealogy IS absolutely still fun (Hi!, my name is Nick and I'm an addict ) ...just where to do it that is still fun is the only issue. 

Ancestry may work but I have a strong desire to share with cousins without a paywall. I've started messing around a bit at familysearch to avoid the paywall but the errata there is daunting....

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Nick, your post won't result in a mentor intervention, as far as I know.  You probably need to go through the actual process. At the least, please add the mentors tag to your post.

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In all my time here, I've never felt the need to go into that so I took your advice and added the tag. Thanks

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If you want a mentor intervention, Julie is correct, you'll need to actually go through the steps here: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Problems_with_Members.

Answer 4

I'm a bit shy about posting a reply here, but (and forgive me if this is a bit disjointed)...

As a newer member who has "chosen" Wikitree and who is planning on being here for the long haul, the presence of seemingly self-appointed "style police" has given me pause. I struggle to wrap my head around users who are taking on the task of "fixing" the work of other, in some cases highly experienced users, on profiles that are currently being worked. Wikitree has orphaned profiles, unsourced profiles, unconnected profiles, unlinked profiles, unknowns... many, many profiles that have been sitting on the site for nearly a decade just waiting for some Wikilove. And these are just a few examples of how there is so much work to do and so many ways to help improve our tree, all without causing fellow users feel as though their hard (and recent) work is being trampled upon.

I suppose what I'm saying is, surely we all have more important tasks we could be attending to, other than micromanaging each others' stylistic nuances? Aside from cases where there is a specific team-based or project-related reason for doing this, I really don't understand it at all.

What's happened to you here, Nick, in my humble opinion should not be happening. It's disheartening. I appreciate you writing this post, because transparency matters, and, for what it's worth, I hope you decide to stay (and perhaps file an MIR, while you're at it).

Comments

Dale, although it has happened, in my time on WikiTree I've actually had extremely few experiences of anyone making unwanted edits to profiles I manage.  And stylistic changes alone--nonexistent.

I will confess to making some stylistic changes to others' profiles.  It is nearly always when there is a gedcom upload, untouched for several years.  No one has ever complained to me, and if they did, I would not do it.

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WikiTreers have significant latitude regarding style, but there are some rules and guidelines in place. See https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Style_FAQ and https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Biographies if you are not familiar with the official guidance on this subject.

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9 times someone has tampered with my great+gramps

 one wikitreer insisted on making him a white man

I kept putting his profile back the way I had it

the tamperer wrote me an email ORDERING me to leave it

alone and stop changing her edits and said I should be

grateful that someone who was better at research than I

was had been helping me.

I finally emailed her my own photo and asked her if I looked

 white. Never heard from her again LOL

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The "style police" had a go at one of the profiles I manage the other day. I had it with a chronologically ordered narrative bio, with a small paragraph for each source, no headings other than Biography were necessary. It looked perfectly nice,like a page from a book but they decided to put a "Residence" heading in above the 1841 census and number the paragraphs as well as adding other headings throughout and amalgamating the 1871 and 1881 paragraphs. As far as I'm concerned, these headings and numbers were superfluous and missed the point so I removed them and reinstated the seperate paragraphs for 1871 and 1881.
it's not the first time someone's tried to add a mechanical style to my work and unnecessarily change/remove stuff that was perfectly good and it's not the first time I've reverted the edits. I'm sure it won't be the last either. I've had to ask someone to please stop editing my already complete work because I'm only going to change it back so you are wasting your time. I've even had someone try to emulate a gedcom import before now. I set myself a hig bar for accuracy and I won't have people wading in and trashing it, just to impose some arbitrary style they believe to be necessary..

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Hi, Dale --

I hope you don't take this one post as representative of the work that goes on here at WikiTree. We *are* a wiki, and we are encouraged to edit Open profiles, but we like to say: this is not a "free for all." That is why we require members who want to have full editing capabilities to sign the Honor Code and uphold the 9 promises they make when they do so. We take it seriously.

Most of our members try to respect the work of others, and if that's not happening then those of us who try to help in situations like this need to be made aware.

As I just posted in my answer, it's important to take advantage of the Problems with Members process if you are uncomfortable with the actions of another member. If we don't know there's a problem, we can't help.

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Dale - I have experienced the same thing, someone coming in to add badges or categories or change an unnamed infant to a different classification.  Fortunately it's only happened a couple of times, but as they were to profiles of mine that were well-sourced, clearly owned and recently worked on I did wonder why they had been 'amended' (in one case in clear violation of accepted WikiTree style) when there are so very many old profiles that could use some (or any!) TLC.  Fortunately in my case it has been a very small number and I have benefitted from other WikiTree genealogists generously sharing research and help without getting too much into the formatting detail.

Answer 5

Nick,  I have just recently bumped into your profiles while cleaning up the unconnected Ogle, Illinois profiles.  Your profiles and assistance have been greatly appreciated. I have no connection to Ogle, just knew there were a bunch of profiles that I thought I could connect easily.  You certainly have been patient with me (connecting, lots of merge requests), so I do hope you can resolve the issues with the other member.

Answer 6

WTreers who are sad to see you go are "Dean Martin" ... here's our sad song ... "Baby, It's Cold Outside" (Orig. Lyrics) DEAN MARTIN 1959 - YouTube

Comments

no no Miss Susan !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IypSqKgmpdU

Answer 7

Cousin Nick, I've been observing your progress since I came to WT, and I'd hate to see you pick up your work and depart.  Here's hoping you can get satisfaction from the mentor department.

Comments

Ahhh Cousin Lois! First let me say that you are one of my idols & when I grow up (genealogically ) I hope to be half as good as you are!

As I mentioned to our other cousin George, the only reason I was 'sitting' on the old gedcom Tiltons was so that somebody was there. I haven't got any further in my personal research than Richard. I've orphaned all those profiles so that you, George, Laura (sent her an e-mail), Colleen and the rest of the cousins can adopt them as you like.

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I know Laura had already picked up a whole raft of orphans. Isn't it astonishing that almost all of these thousands of people were apparently generated by a single ancestor!

I must say that when I first read your post, I thought: "oh-oh! Was that me?" As I do indeed write long narrative biographies, but I hope they are not on profiles that someone is actively working on. It is a good reminder, I think, to everyone.

Answer 8

It is good genealogy to provide your evidence and reasoning, and a refreshing change from the many people who simply copy the erroneous work of others and make stuff up. Wikitree has some good points, but it also makes it extremely easy for people to create a complete mess here, whilst those who research carefully and thoroughly are made to jump through many hoops to sort out the mess. We really need to think about the calibre of researcher that we want to attract to this site and keep here.

I'm sorry that you feel you have to leave, Nick. Perhaps have a break and hopefully reconsider when you're not feeling so frustrated. Wikitree needs good researchers. It can take years to find all the relevant evidence. You should be able to discuss what you have found and your reasoning for accepting and dismissing evidence. If someone changes the style of your profiles, just quietly change them back. Hopefully they will quickly get the message to butt out.

Answer 9

Sorry to hear of your frustration, Wikitree is supposed to be fun for us all, and generally succeeds at that.  I highly recommend following the processes we have in place for resolving conflicts (starting with Problem with Members and if needed, proceeding to MIR) as we continue to refine this process with the goal of bringing about the best environment for all involved.  Going off and doing your own thing (e.g., publicly shaming someone) and not following the above process tends to escalate conflicts, not resolve them.  The last thing we want is for you or anyone else to leave and go elsewhere, so please do give us the benefit of doubt and try to work with us to reach an harmonious outcome. If after following the above process to completion you have recommendations on how to improve it, I would hope you'd share your thoughts with the mentor. Finally, let me thank you for your numerous contributions to date on Wikitree, way beyond my level of work, your work is greatly appreciated and would be sorely missed if you decided to leave.

Answer 10

I'm sorry to hear of your frustration. I don't think this is worth leaving WikiTree. WikiTree is a collaborative, supportive, friendly, and helpful place.

Comments

Sometimes.

Answer 11

The only way I could stay here was to abandon an entire line of research.  Otherwise, I became too frustrated. That is the peril of one tree edited by many.  It works most of the time, but not all of the time. In Family Search tree yesterday, I discovered that someone had merged my great-great-grandmother with another profile, instantly obliterating 14 sources, numerous relationships, marriage dates, and so on.  Fortunately, they've finally caught up with Wikitree by letting us restore profiles.  When I die, this could happen to every profile I care about or have worked on, both here and in Family Search, and no one will bother to revert them.

Comments

I'm doing a real book on my lines.

Using Legacy, I can copy paste source material, pictures, etc and add in pages about what else was going on in the world when each person lived. Some good history. My Isiah Woods was at Harper's Ferry. My Wilson Lee, according to family tradition, a mulatto nephew of Robert E, escaped his plantation and served in the Union Army. My Crum peeps were in Selma Alabama during the Civil Rights movement. Eddie Crum murdered by the KKK. Quitman Walker, my gramps' cousin, was a Tuskegee Airman.

Our Trumbull County Library has a respected Genealogy reference room and the library will place copies of my book when it's done in the library. I'll also put a copy online. There are several sites for stuff like that. Archive.org is one. You can post your book print copy there for others to access

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J, that seems like a very pessimistic view.  I like to think that at least over the long run, the trend--on WikiTree and in genealogy in general--is in favor of the truth.  If you clearly state your sources and your reasoning, why would anyone obliterate every profile you've worked on?  And if they did, except in very particular circumstances where few descendants were affected, wouldn't someone else come forward and restore the information?

In the short run, we do have choices.  We can appeal to project managers, file Mentor Intervention Requests, whatever it takes.  Yes, it is frustrating.  For myself, I've made the opposite choice that you did.  I would not want to stay on WikiTree if major branches of my tree were compromised.  So far, I still have hope.

Answer 12

Nick:

I have been with Wikitree for a little less than two years. In that time, I have created new profiles and added sources to other profiles. When I have added or rewritten profiles using a "narrative" style, I have tried to choose those biographies that were missing or confusing. Perhaps, I have offended people by editing their work, and for that I am sorry. That was never my intention.

I also hope you will reconsider leaving. I started reading some of your profiles, and they are so interesting and well-done. Your work really makes a difference. You inspire us by setting a standard that we can aspire to and learn from. We need you.

Answer 13

I believe those sites to which you refer are either owned by Ancestry or are now pay sites. It's what brought me to migrate all my stuff to Wikitree.

Let us know if you find an alternative. Although, I have yet to find something that lets me expand the trees all the way back to essentially Adam. Still, I'd be interested.

It's not a bad idea to have it in a couple places, anyway, instead of just all on one site. Just in case Wikitree gets bought out by Ancestry, or just disappears for some reason.

Good luck to you. I understand your frustration. Not sure why anyone would muck with your notes. That would get under my skin, too. Especially in the middle of a research project like this.

Answer 14

I'm a veteran researcher, but I'm new to wikitree, and hope I haven't offended anyone in my learning curve.  (I know I made a duplicate person during the first week and have yet to figure out how to merge them.)  Wiki's are frustrating (that's one of the challenges of Familysearch that makes me wild sometimes), but they're also the only way to really collaborate and work together.  I'm sorry you've had a sour ending, but I appreciate the work you've put in during the last 7 years that have helped it to grow and become a usable platform.  Thank you.

Comments

Do you want help with that merge?