Are Hugh Jones and others "Gateway" ancestors?

+7 votes
1.2k views
Hi.

I was wondering if someone could help me confirm whether or not Hugh Jones is a gateway ancestor? I was surfing through his dynamic tree and found loads of MPs and all kinds of royals up to some kinds and such. I dunno if this tree is bogus or not. Can someone help me out?

There are also a few others, too that I am unsure of. People like:

Mary Gilman: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Gilman-2

There are a few others, too. Wasn't sure if anyone wanted the entire list. If they want, I can show you.

Just wanted to know before I added in their trees. Wikitree says I am connected to William De Berkley through Hugh Jones and I was wondering if that was accurate before I added the line to the main tree.
WikiTree profile: Hugh Jones
in Genealogy Help by Chris Ferraiolo G2G6 Pilot (820k points)
retagged by Ellen Smith

For example, here's my connection to one of the Magna Carta barons. I cut out up to the gateway lady: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Toothaker-66

13. Martha is the daughter of Margaret (French) Hill [unknown confidence] 
14. Margaret is the daughter of Thomas French III [unknown confidence] 
15. Thomas is the son of Bridget (Higham) French [unknown confidence] 
16. Bridget is the daughter of Phyllis (Waldegrave) Heigham [confident] 
17. Phyllis is the daughter of George Waldegrave Esq. [confident] 
18. George is the son of Margery (Wentworth) Waldegrave [confident] 
19. Margery is the daughter of Henry Wentworth [confident] 
20. Henry is the son of Margery (Despenser) Wentworth [confident] 
21. Margery is the daughter of Elizabeth (Tiptoft) le Despenser [confident] 
22. Elizabeth is the daughter of Robert (Tiptoft) de Tibetot [confident] 
23. Robert is the son of John (Tiptoft) de Tibetot Knt [confident] 
24. John is the son of Agnes (Ros) de Vere [confident] 
25. Agnes is the daughter of William (Ros) de Ros [confident] 
26. William is the son of Isabel (Albini) de Roos [confident] 
27. Isabel is the daughter of William (Albini) d'Aubigny [confident] 
28. William is the son of William (Albini) d'Aubigny [confident] 

And here's from Hugh Jones to Thomas de Berkley:

13. Hugh is the son of Elizabeth Soame [unknown confidence] 
14. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth Playter [unknown confidence] 
15. Elizabeth is the daughter of Thomas Playters [unknown confidence] 
16. Thomas is the son of Elizabeth Timperly [unknown confidence] 
17. Elizabeth is the daughter of Thomas Timperly [unknown confidence] 
18. Thomas is the son of Margaret (Howard) Timperly [unknown confidence] 
19. Margaret is the daughter of Elizabeth (Stafford) Howard [unknown confidence] 
20. Elizabeth is the daughter of Edward Stafford [unknown confidence] 
21. Edward is the son of Henry Stafford KG [unknown confidence] 
22. Henry is the son of Margaret (Beaufort) Stafford [confident] 
23. Margaret is the daughter of Eleanor (Beauchamp) Rokesley [unknown confidence] 
24. Eleanor is the daughter of Elizabeth (Berkeley) Beauchamp [unknown confidence] 
25. Elizabeth is the daughter of Thomas Berkeley [unknown confidence] 

Here are a few other Gateways I found. Elizabeth Best: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Best-11

13. Samuel is the son of Elizabeth (Best) Hunt [unknown confidence] 
14. Elizabeth is the daughter of John Best [confident] 
15. John is the son of Henry Best [unknown confidence] 
16. Henry is the son of Henry Best [unknown confidence] 
17. Henry is the son of Richard Best II [unknown confidence] 
18. Richard is the son of Richard Best [unknown confidence] 
19. Richard is the son of Donald Best [unknown confidence] 
20. Donald is the son of Richard Best [unknown confidence] 
21. Richard is the son of Christopher Best [unknown confidence] 
22. Christopher is the son of Mary Hill [unknown confidence] 
23. Mary is the daughter of Warren Hill [unknown confidence] 
24. Warren is the son of John Hill [unknown confidence] 
25. John is the son of Joan (Basset) Hill [unknown confidence] 
26. Joan is the daughter of Joan (Grey) Basset [unknown confidence] 
27. Joan is the daughter of Maud (Verdun) de Grey [unknown confidence] 
28. Maud is the daughter of Eleanor (Bohun) de Verdun [unknown confidence] 
29. Eleanor is the daughter of Humphrey (Bohun) de Bohun Knt [unknown confidence] 
30. Humphrey is the son of Henry (Bohun) de Bohun [confident] 

13. Samuel is the son of Elizabeth (Best) Hunt [unknown confidence] 
14. Elizabeth is the daughter of John Best [confident] 
15. John is the son of Grace (Boithes) Best [unknown confidence] 
16. Grace is the daughter of John Boithes [unknown confidence] 
17. John is the son of Agnes Waterhouse [unknown confidence] 
18. Agnes is the daughter of Agnes (Rushworth) Waterhouse [unknown confidence] 
19. Agnes is the daughter of Mary Keith [unknown confidence] 
20. Mary is the daughter of William Keith [unknown confidence] 
21. William is the son of William Keith [unknown confidence] 
22. William is the son of Robert Keith [unknown confidence] 
23. Robert is the son of Margaret (Fraser) Keith [unknown confidence] 
24. Margaret is the daughter of John (Fraser) Fraser of Touchfraser [unknown confidence] 
25. John is the son of Mary (Bruce) Fraser [unknown confidence] 
26. Mary is the daughter of Robert Bruce [unknown confidence] 
27. Robert is the son of Isabel (Clare) de Brus [confident] 
28. Isabel is the daughter of Gilbert (Clare) de Clare [confident] 

Margaret French Hill:

13. Martha is the daughter of Margaret (French) Hill [unknown confidence] 
14. Margaret is the daughter of Thomas French III [unknown confidence] 
15. Thomas is the son of Bridget (Higham) French [unknown confidence] 
16. Bridget is the daughter of Phyllis (Waldegrave) Heigham [confident] 
17. Phyllis is the daughter of Anne (Drury) Waldegrave [confident] 
18. Anne is the daughter of Robert Drury [confident] 
19. Robert is the son of Felice (Denston) Drury [unknown confidence] 
20. Felice is the daughter of Anne (Calthorpe) De Calthorpe [unknown confidence] 
21. Anne is the daughter of Alianore (Mautby) Calthorpe [unknown confidence] 
22. Eleanor is the daughter of John Mawtby [unknown confidence] 
23. John is the son of John DeMauteby [unknown confidence] 
24. John is the son of Robert De Mauteby [unknown confidence] 
25. Robert is the son of Elizabeth (Clavering) de Clavering [unknown confidence] 
26. Elizabeth is the daughter of Robert (Clavering) FitzRoger [unknown confidence] 
27. Robert is the son of Roger (Clavering) FitzJohn [confident] 
28. Roger is the son of John (Clavering) FitzRobert [confident] 

Here's Hugh:

12. Mary is the daughter of Hugh Jones [confident] 
13. Hugh is the son of Elizabeth Soame [unknown confidence] 
14. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth Playter [unknown confidence] 
15. Elizabeth is the daughter of Thomas Playters [unknown confidence] 
16. Thomas is the son of Elizabeth Timperly [unknown confidence] 
17. Elizabeth is the daughter of Thomas Timperly [unknown confidence] 
18. Thomas is the son of Margaret (Howard) Timperly [unknown confidence] 
19. Margaret is the daughter of Thomas Howard KG [unknown confidence] 
20. Thomas is the son of Elizabeth (Tilney) Howard [unknown confidence] 
21. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth (Cheney) Saye [confident] 
22. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth (Cockayne) Cheyne [unknown confidence] 
23. Elizabeth is the daughter of Ida (Grey) Cokayne [confident] 
24. Ida is the daughter of Eleanor (Strange) de Grey [unknown confidence] 
25. Eleanor is the daughter of Ankaret (Boteler) de Ferrers [confident] 
26. Ankaret is the daughter of Ela (Herdeburgh) Boteler [confident] 
27. Ela is the daughter of Ida (Odingsells) de Clinton [confident] 
28. Ida is the daughter of Ela (FitzWalter) de Odingsells [confident] 
29. Ela is the daughter of Walter FitzRobert [confident] 
30. Walter is the son of Robert FitzWalter [confident] 

I found a few that are uncertain. So I won't link them.

Margaret French Hill again:

13. Martha is the daughter of Margaret (French) Hill [unknown confidence] 
14. Margaret is the daughter of Thomas French III [unknown confidence] 
15. Thomas is the son of Bridget (Higham) French [unknown confidence] 
16. Bridget is the daughter of Phyllis (Waldegrave) Heigham [confident] 
17. Phyllis is the daughter of George Waldegrave Esq. [confident] 
18. George is the son of Margery (Wentworth) Waldegrave [confident] 
19. Margery is the daughter of Henry Wentworth [confident] 
20. Henry is the son of Margery (Despenser) Wentworth [confident] 
21. Margery is the daughter of Elizabeth (Tiptoft) le Despenser [confident] 
22. Elizabeth is the daughter of Robert (Tiptoft) de Tibetot [confident] 
23. Robert is the son of Margaret (Badlesmere) de Tibetot [confident] 
24. Margaret is the daughter of Margaret (Clare) de Badlesmere [confident] 
25. Margaret is the daughter of Thomas (Clare) de Clare [confident] 
26. Thomas is the son of Maud (Lacy) de Clare [confident] 
27. Maud is the daughter of John (Lacy) de Lacy Knt [confident] 

Looks like French is taking the lead here...

13. Martha is the daughter of Margaret (French) Hill [unknown confidence] 
14. Margaret is the daughter of Thomas French III [unknown confidence] 
15. Thomas is the son of Bridget (Higham) French [unknown confidence] 
16. Bridget is the daughter of Phyllis (Waldegrave) Heigham [confident] 
17. Phyllis is the daughter of George Waldegrave Esq. [confident] 
18. George is the son of Margery (Wentworth) Waldegrave [confident] 
19. Margery is the daughter of Henry Wentworth [confident] 
20. Henry is the son of Margery (Despenser) Wentworth [confident] 
21. Margery is the daughter of Philip (Despenser) le Despenser Knt [confident] 
22. Philip is the son of Philip (Despenser) le Despenser Knt [unknown confidence] 
23. Philip is the son of Joan (Cobham) le Despenser [unknown confidence] 
24. Joan is the daughter of Joan (Beauchamp) de Cobham [unknown confidence] 
25. Joan is the daughter of John (Beauchamp) de Beauchamp [unknown confidence] 
26. John is the son of Cecily (Vivonne) de Beauchamp [confident] 
27. Cecily is the daughter of William (Vivonne) de Forz [confident] 
28. William is the son of Mabel (Malet) de Vivonne [confident] 
29. Mabel is the daughter of William Malet [confident] 

Hugh to Mowbray:

12. Mary is the daughter of Hugh Jones [confident] 
13. Hugh is the son of Elizabeth Soame [unknown confidence] 
14. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth Playter [unknown confidence] 
15. Elizabeth is the daughter of Thomas Playters [unknown confidence] 
16. Thomas is the son of Elizabeth Timperly [unknown confidence] 
17. Elizabeth is the daughter of Thomas Timperly [unknown confidence] 
18. Thomas is the son of Margaret (Howard) Timperly [unknown confidence] 
19. Margaret is the daughter of Thomas Howard KG [unknown confidence] 
20. Thomas is the son of Thomas Howard KG KB [unknown confidence] 
21. Thomas is the son of John Howard KG [unknown confidence] 
22. John is the son of Margaret (Mowbray) Howard [unknown confidence] 
23. Margaret is the daughter of Thomas (Mowbray) de Mowbray KG [confident] 
24. Thomas is the son of John (Mowbray) de Mowbray [confident] 
25. John is the son of John (Mowbray) de Mowbray [confident] 
26. John is the son of John (Mowbray) de Mowbray [confident] 
27. John is the son of Roger (Mowbray) de Mowbray [confident] 
28. Roger is the son of Roger (Mowbray) de Mowbray [confident] 
29. Roger is the son of William (Mowbray) de Mowbray [confident] 

French:

13. Martha is the daughter of Margaret (French) Hill [unknown confidence] 
14. Margaret is the daughter of Thomas French III [unknown confidence] 
15. Thomas is the son of Bridget (Higham) French [unknown confidence] 
16. Bridget is the daughter of Phyllis (Waldegrave) Heigham [confident] 
17. Phyllis is the daughter of George Waldegrave Esq. [confident] 
18. George is the son of Margery (Wentworth) Waldegrave [confident] 
19. Margery is the daughter of Henry Wentworth [confident] 
20. Henry is the son of Margery (Despenser) Wentworth [confident] 
21. Margery is the daughter of Elizabeth (Tiptoft) le Despenser [confident] 
22. Elizabeth is the daughter of Robert (Tiptoft) de Tibetot [confident] 
23. Robert is the son of John (Tiptoft) de Tibetot Knt [confident] 
24. John is the son of Agnes (Ros) de Vere [confident] 
25. Agnes is the daughter of William (Ros) de Ros [confident] 
26. William is the son of Robert (Ros) de Roos [confident] 
27. Robert is the son of William (Ros) de Roos [confident] 
28. William is the son of Robert (Ros) de Roos [confident] 

13. Martha is the daughter of Margaret (French) Hill [unknown confidence] 
14. Margaret is the daughter of Thomas French III [unknown confidence] 
15. Thomas is the son of Bridget (Higham) French [unknown confidence] 
16. Bridget is the daughter of Phyllis (Waldegrave) Heigham [confident] 
17. Phyllis is the daughter of Anne (Drury) Waldegrave [confident] 
18. Anne is the daughter of Anne (Calthorpe) Drury [confident] 
19. Anne is the daughter of Elizabeth (Stapylton) Stapleton [unknown confidence] 
20. Elizabeth is the daughter of Katherine de (la Pole) Harcourt [unknown confidence] 
21. Katherine de is the daughter of Anne (Cheney) de la Pole [unknown confidence] 
22. Ann is the daughter of Nicholas Laurence Cheney [unknown confidence] 
23. Nicholas is the son of John Cheney [unknown confidence] 
24. John is the son of Henry Cheney [unknown confidence] 
25. Henry is the son of William (Cheyne) de Cheyne [unknown confidence] 
26. William is the son of Agnes (Say) de Cheyney [unknown confidence] 
27. Agnes is the daughter of William (Say) de Say [unknown confidence] 
28. William is the son of Geoffrey (Say) de Say [confident] 

12. Samuel is the son of Mary (Gilman) Folsom [unknown confidence] 
13. Mary is the daughter of Mary (Clark) Gilman [unknown confidence] 
14. Mary is the daughter of John Clark [confident] 
15. John is the son of Elizabeth (Egglesfield) Clarke [confident] 
16. Elizabeth is the daughter of Humphrey Clarke [uncertain] 
17. Humphrey is the son of John Clark [unknown confidence] 
18. John is the son of William Clarke [unknown confidence] 
19. William is the son of Robert Clarke [unknown confidence] 
20. Robert is the son of Matilda Echingham [unknown confidence] 
21. Matilda is the daughter of Thomas Echingham [uncertain] 
22. Thomas is the son of Joan (FitzAlan) Echingham [unknown confidence] 
23. Joan is the daughter of John FitzAlan [unknown confidence] 
24. John is the son of Richard (FitzAlan) de Arundel [confident] 
25. Richard is the son of Alice (Warenne) FitzAlan [confident] 
26. Alice is the daughter of Joan (de Vere) de Warenne [unknown confidence] 
27. Joan is the daughter of Robert de Vere [confident] 
28. Robert is the son of Hugh de Vere [confident] 
29. Hugh is the son of Robert de Vere [confident] 

3 Answers

+13 votes
 
Best answer

The (240) Gateway Ancestors are American colonists with Magna Carta ancestry whose well-documented ancestral lines are documented in Royal Ancestry: a Study of Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson (2013), Volumes 1-5, and in Magna Carta Ancestry: a Study of Colonial & Medieval Families, also by Douglas Richardson (2011).

Hugh Jones and Martha French Hill are not found in this list of Gateway Ancestors that have documented connections to a surety Baron.  However,  there are colonial immigrants that appear to have Magna Carta lines on WikiTree that do not appear in the list of known Gateway Ancestors.  However, in many cases there are no sources that prove these lines and finding documentary support for these connections can be challenging.    That appears to be the case in the two trails you present.  Note that many of the relationships are marked "unknown confidence" and each will require evidence to prove the proposed relationships. 

Colonial Immigrants who have unverified trails to a Surety Baron that are not found in the Douglas Richardson references listed above are called Questionable Gateway Ancestors https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:Questionable_Gateway_Ancestors 

Determining the validity of a trail between a Questionable Gateway Ancestor and the Surety Baron is done by researching the line and "proving" the relationships.  The exception to this is if a line has previously been researched and disproved.

In the case of the line from Hugh Jones it appears that Margaret Howard Tiperly may be problenatic as Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study In Colonial And Medieval Families, 2nd Edition indicates that Thomas Howard and Elizabeth Stafford had two sons, Henry and Thomas. they also had three daughters, Muriel, Katherine and Mary. Margaret Howard is not indicated as a daughter of Thomas and Elizabeth Stafford.

 

 

by David Douglass G2G6 Pilot (129k points)
selected by Susan Laursen
So basically I need to find someone who is 100 % confident all the way down the line?

I remember surfing and finding a few Plantagents. Thought that was weird.

I'm still adding people from the 1600s. I was just wondering how accurate these were here before I added them to the tree I have on Ancestry. Do you think I should add the lines? Not sure what I can do here.
When we add profiles, we should add sources to support the facts and relationships.  You can add your lines but how do you know they are accurate unless there is evidence that those connections are true. Prove the connections, support the facts.
Right. Hugh has a lot of sources under his belt. I think what I might do is message the profile managers and see what they say about Hugh and all these connections.

I just went through a couple Magna Carta signers. Some have unknown confidence. Will have to check the rest. It doesn't matter if I have a connection or not. Just curious.

Gonna send some private messages.

Chris in an ideal world of genealogy we would apply the following standards to each and every profile we add or family connection we make.  The standards are high but not impossible. 

Genealogical Proof Standard

The purpose of the Genealogical Proof Standard is to show what the minimums are that a genealogist must do for his or her work to be credible.

There are five elements to the Genealogical Proof Standard:

  1. Reasonably exhaustive research has been conducted.
  2. Each statement of fact has a complete and accurate source citation.
  3. The evidence is reliable and has been skillfully correlated and interpreted.
  4. Any contradictory evidence has been resolved.
  5. The conclusion has been soundly reasoned and coherently written.

Any proof statement is subject to re-evaluation when new evidence arises.

Add your ancestors, add your profiles (watching for duplicates of course) and then do what you can to prove the facts with evidence (credible sources)

I have a free space page of sources that I often refer to for research and sourcing, I will be glad to share with you.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:My_Source_Library_%28arr_by_subject_and_time%29

 

Yeah. It's like the Scientific Method. You need to prove something before you can commit to it. It's like that in a lot of research. I'll definitely check that out and cross reference it with the connections I might have with the Magna Carta signers.

Most of the stuff from the 1600s down to the present day that I have seems legit thanks to Mass town records, censuses and Canadian records. I admit to being hesitant about adding people earlier than their arrival in the New World.  That's why I am still adding people from the 1600s.

That standard works. =D I use it for a lot of things. Sometimes I even use the Scientific Method. Thanks, man.

David, I adopted Margaret Howard and was about to disconnect her when I came across this:


:Two sons of William Timpley were both Members of Parliament and have a biography on The History of Parliament Online.

#Thomas Timperley is said to have been 1st s. of William Timperley of Hintlesham by Margaret, da. (prob. illegit.) of Thomas Howard, 3rd Duke of Norfolk; bro. of William†.  History of Parliament Online, biography of TIMPERLEY, Thomas (1523/24-94), of Hintlesham, Suff. and Flitcham, Norf.
#William Timperley (the son) is stated to have been a 2nd s. of William Timperley (d.1528) of Hintlesham, and bro. of Thomas.  History of Parliament Online, biography of TIMPERLEY, William (c.1525-c.1606), of Lincoln's Inn, London and Monewden, Suff.

"When Thomas Timperley’s father died in 1528 he became the ward of his maternal grandfather the 3rd Duke of Norfolk. Thenceforward his fortunes mirrored those of the Howard family. "

:So there is some reason to think that Margaret was a daughter of the 3rd Duke of Norfolk from a very good source.  More research is indicated beyond looking her up in Royal Ancestry as this is something Doug Richardson may have missed.

The plot thickens! *grabs popcorn*

Been keeping an eye on this thread today. I dunno if anyone wants me to post any more links to Magna Carta barons. They all seem to link to Hugh Jones and a couple other people. I'll have to look.
So, accepting for now that Margaret is an illegitimate daughter of the Duke of Norfolk (this is a big claim that should have better documentation), I can reasonably trace the line down to Elizabeth Player.

The next step then is to go to what is always the problem generation - the immigrant, Hugh Jones.  How do we know who his parents are?  I don't see it in the references.

Well Joe good find it is worth looking into. That's why you get the big bucks ! And yes it is certainly possible that Richardson missed Margaret.. Thanks for bringing that up.  Maybe it's sitll game on for Margaret

That, I wish I knew. I see the same parents on Geni and here. I never made Hugh's profiles. But, the answers may be in the sources of his parents:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Jones-594

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Soame-2

Here are the profiles on geni with sources:

https://www.geni.com/people/Hugh-Jones/6000000003097132606

https://www.geni.com/people/Robert-Jones/6000000000305184691?through=6000000003097132606

https://www.geni.com/people/Elizabeth-Jones-Soame/6000000002292712362?through=6000000003097132606

Rootsweb may be the key.
So now we have  problem then, the Robert Jones who (supposedly) married Elizabeth Soane did not have a son Hugh.  Also their biographies make it essentially impossible for him to be a son of Robert.

Robert Jones immigrated in 1636 and settled in Hingham Massachusetts where he live out the rest of his days.  He left a will dated 20 April 1688 in which he names all of his children (and grandchildren if a child was deceased).  He names wife Elizabeth, sons Joseph, John, Benjamin the elder, Benjamin the younger, children of his deceased son Robert, daughters Sarah Belknap and Jane Collier.  No Hugh. http://tinyurl.com/y9tw2hn7   

Hugh Jones immigrated as an indentured servant in 1652.  It is not possible that he was the son of a farmer in Hingham who immigrated in 1636.

I will be breaking this line at Hugh Jones with Unknown parents.

This still leaves all of the other children of Elizabeth Soane who also have MCS descent currently.  But, are we sure of her LNAB? and are we sure of her parents?
Alright. Shall I ask Geni to separate the parents too?

Good thing I didn't add anyone past Hugh. How did the maker of that profile come up with the parents? I'm confused.

From Sir Thomas Howard's profile is the following documentation,

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Howard-2663

m.1 Anne Plantagenet (d.1510) the daughter of Edward IV and Elizabeth Wydevill, on 4 Feb 1494/5 at Greenwich Palace, Greenwich, London. Issue: 4 who all died young.

m.2 ante 08 Jan 1512/3 Elizabeth Stafford, the daughter of Edward Stafford, 3rd Duke of Buckingham and his wife, Eleanor Percy. Divorced 1533.

Margaret's DOB is given as 1494 but we do not know who her mother is. It would seem that she was possibly from a relationship prior to Anne, who the documentation indicates had four children who all died young.  

Margaret's line (based on the earlier RF post went through 19. Margaret is the daughter of Elizabeth (Stafford) Howard [unknown confidence]  This is now questionable.   It is documented by Richardson that Elizabeth, who Thomas married abt 1512/13 did not give birth to Margaret.  We have not proved that Richardson is wrong on that count.

 

Okay, So we can cross out Hugh, right? What about the others?
Douglas Richardson's research is not worth the money in print. It is a great source but He is not over 100$. I recommend the "Google Ebook's" for his written volumes instead.
It would be a lot cheaper....

Joe so you are looking at Elizabeth Soame ?  

exactly, and you could even then cut and paste quoted segments so it would be more useful for online.
Yep. So, it doesn't look like Hugh is the guy. I still have a couple other possible links and that chain to Mr. De Berkley I posted.
hugh is a no go.
Strike one. What about the ladies I mentioned?

Richardson's Royal Ancestry is by far the best work of its kind.  It is the most accurate, most up to date, best sourced linage series out there.  It incorporates a vast amount of original research as well as integrating every English origins article ever published as of 2013.

Does it contain errors?  Of course it does, it would not be reasonable to think 3000 written pages with hundreds of thousands of individual facts would not contain some errors.  Those errors are remarkably few.given the size of the work.

Is it worth the money?  That is up to you and what your interests are.  Most people only care about a couple off gateway ancestors which they can obtain information on elsewhere.  If you are interested in medieval genealogy and royal ancestry in general, I think it is well worth the money.  I prefer the print book which I know is available on amazon.com.  I do not see it available as a google ebook unless you are talking about the preview copies which only show a limited number of pages.

Oops. Forgot to link the ladies.

Mary Gilman: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Gilman-2

Margaret French Hill: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/French-801

Elizabeth Best: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Best-11

None of these three appear in that list. But, through them I have connections to barons.

I'm running out of time David but I will try to look at Elizabeth Soane later.  The questions are:

Is the Robert Jones who married Elizabeth Soane the same person as the Robert Jones who immigrated to Hingham.  There has to be more than the name is the same.  How common do you think the name Robert Jones is? and how many married to someone named Elizabeth?  The answer is a lot.  So what is the evidence that we have the right couple.

If it is the right couple, are we confident that we know Elizabeth Soane's parents?  Right now we have Elizabeth Soane marrying Robert Jones in Reading Berkshire England and her parents being from Little Bradley, Suffolk, England.  They are not that close making this identification extremely unlikely.

My parents are friends with a Bob Jones. That's how common it is. =)

The French line doesn't need researching.  It was discussed 3 years ago, but looks like nothing was ever done about it

https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/130066/who-were-the-parents-of-thomas-french-iii-1562-1613-

That just leaves Best and Gilman. What do we know about those two lines?

Elizabeth Soame b 1602 and d 1712 ? Hingham, Plymouth, Massachusetts (dates given in her profile) 

See Page 386-387 indicates that her given name is Elizabeth but her maiden name is unknown. She is named as Robert Jones 2nd wife.   She is said to have died Sept 25, 1712, 9 chilldren are giving for Robert, & to his first wife and 2 with Elizabeth.   There is no Hugh.

Children named are: (1st wife) Robert, Joseph, Sarah, Jane, Benjamin, Ephraim and John (2nd wife Elizabeth) Elizabeth and Bemjamin

https://archive.org/stream/historyoftownofh0203hing#page/n397/mode/2up/search/Elizabeth+Jones

 

This is getting hilarious. If it's obvious that Hugh isn't their son then why are they the parents on geni and wikitree? Wow....
It is the problem with internet genealogy, and the great advantage of wikitree.  Once an error is made it gets picked up and spread from gedcom to gedcom.  It is just all internet junk.  Especially when it comes to English origins, we need to have a source and an explanation of how it is known.  It seems to me that almost every Great Migration immigrant has a false line out there somewhere; it is usually because of a bad guess, an old disproved theory, an unproven possibility, a typo, or even outright genealogical fraud.  The advantage of wikitree's single world tree is that these errors are being exposed and corrected slowly.  The level of scholarship has been greatly increased on wikitree in just the two years I have been here.  It is good to see.

Your Best line also needs to be broken at the immigrant.

The Gilman line through Clark is clearly incorrect with a long string of unsourced people.  I am just trying to figure out the best way to approach and explain it.
Geni has the same gimmick. I dunno if they'll fixed the tree. I already pointed one of the curators to this thread.

And yea you can't trust anything on the Internet. Not just genealogy. I haven't even ADDED anyone past the PGM people and Quebecois stuff in on the main tree on Ancestry. Italy, I am fairly confident in because I've found records to the 1700s for several towns. Working on the commune in San Pietro a Maida.

The reason I initially asked is because I was surfing around on the dynamic tree and found that. I see other people who go far back to 1000s or so. But, I dunno how accurate they are. I do have some notable people in the tree. But, they are from the 1600s. Tristram Coffin, John Putnam and Hannah Duston's sister, Abigail.

That's good enough. This is just hearsay at the 1500s level. I was always a wee bit skeptical about this line. Or any of the others. I've seen the confidence levels.

So, Hugh was my best line? It would make sense if I didn't have connections to the Magna Carta signers. So, I'm not sad/angry or anything. Chop away, man.

Would be nice to get the profile managers of Hugh in here. See where they came up with the parents.

In my mind the dates for both Robert and Elizabeth riaise questions Robert;s DOB is given as 1600 in Reading, Berkshire, Eng.  His father, Joseph was born 1574.  Sounds reasonable so far however his death date is 1691 which seems to have been stretched to accomodate a father born in Reading, Eng in 1574.  But there aren't any solid sources either.  And Elizabeth whose maiden name is appearantly unknown has a DOB of 1602 in Reading, Eng and a death date of 1712 at Hinghanm MA.  There again it strikes me that the dates were arranged to accomdate her father's DOB 1576 in Botley, Suffolk, England.  It is interesting that he dies in 1602, the same year that Elizabeth is born, in some unknown place in England.  Elizabeth was very long lived being 110 years old when she died.  The other difficulty is that Elizabeth's children, Elizabeth born 1662 and Benjamin born 1666 would have meant that Elizabeth was 64 years old when she gave birth to her youngest.

There are no solid sources that support any of this.  This information came from Elizabeth's profile (Soame-2) and "History of the Town of Hingham, MA  https://archive.org/stream/historyoftownofh0203hing#page/n397/mode/2up/search/Elizabeth

Do we have any other information to add ?

 

I sent a message to the person in charge of the profile as he seems active. Maybe he can help. I thought things seemed odd when I added Hugh the first time.
I have removed the parents of Hugh Jones, added some notes, and asked the PGM project to Project Protect him so he doesn't pickup false parents in the future.  You guys can look and see if my notes are appropriate and clear enough.

Nice. I still have Best, French and Gilman. But, now a new challenger has appeared!
13. Sarah is the daughter of John Wilson Sr. [unknown confidence] 
14. John is the son of Elizabeth (Mansfield) Wilson [unknown confidence] 
15. Elizabeth is the daughter of John Mansfield Esq, MP [confident] 
16. John is the son of Anne (Eure) Mansfield [confident] 
17. Anne is the daughter of Ralph Eure [unknown confidence] 
18. Ralph is the son of William Eure [unknown confidence] 
19. William is the son of Ralph Eure [unknown confidence] 
20. Ralph is the son of William Eure [unknown confidence] 
21. William is the son of Ralph Eure [unknown confidence] 
22. Ralph is the son of Matilda (Fitzhugh) de Eure [unknown confidence] 
23. Maude is the daughter of Elizabeth (Grey) FitzHugh [unknown confidence] 
24. Elizabeth is the daughter of Robert (Grey) de Grey [unknown confidence] 
25. Robert is the son of John Grey KG [unknown confidence] 
26. John is the son of Margaret (Oddingseles) Moreby [unknown confidence] 
27. Margaret is the daughter of Ela (FitzWalter) de Odingsells [unknown confidence] 
28. Ela is the daughter of Walter FitzRobert [confident] 
29. Walter is the son of Robert FitzWalter [confident] 

That's through someone who has an unknown place of birth. Here's an earlier part of that line:
 

1. Chris is the son of [private mother] [confident] 
2. [Private] is the daughter of Natalie Felker [confident] 
3. Natalie is the daughter of Austin Wilfred Felker [confident] 
4. Austin is the son of Wilfred W. Felker [confident] 
5. Wilfred is the son of Elizabeth Deborah Fellows [confident] 
6. Elizabeth is the daughter of Mary Ann (Smith) Fellows [confident] 
7. Mary is the daughter of Abigail Bailey [confident] 
8. Abigail is the daughter of Molly Standley [unknown confidence] 
9. Molly is the daughter of Mary Putney [unknown confidence] 
10. Mary is the daughter of Elizabeth (Snow) Pudney [unknown confidence] 
11. Elizabeth is the daughter of Samuel Snow Jr. [unknown confidence] 
12. Samuel is the son of Sarah (Wilson) Snow [unknown confidence] 

Wilson appears as a link to two guys. Hmmm.....

Congrats, the Wilson line is a proven line from the immigrant Elizabeth (Mansfield) Wilson on.  The line was proven in an article by Anderson himself in 2001, and is included in Richardson's Royal Ancestry for easy tracing.

  • The New England Historical and Genealogical Register. vol. 155 no. 1 (January, 2001): 3-35. The Ancestry of the Royally-Descended Mansfields of the Massachusetts Bay, by Robert Charles Anderson, F.A.S.G., John C. Brandon, and Paul C. Reed, F.A.S.G. AmericanAncestors ($) LINK
  • Richardson, Douglas. Royal Ancestry: A Study In Colonial And Medieval Families, in 5 vols. (Salt Lake City, Utah, 2013): vol. II page 530.
Nice. Looks like I'll be adding them on. Starting from one of the Snows, I believe. Thanks, Joe!
WikiTree shows Elizabeth Mansfield descending from all 17 barons.  I don't trust the Huntingfield line, but the other 16 look good.

Mostly by multiple routes - maybe 200 or more lines altogether.
She was also the wrong mom for Sarah Wilson's dad. Disconnected her yesterday. Medieval genealogy is weird. Still got Gilman and that other lady to check out. No idea how accurate those are.

As for the Royally-descended bit, it's Edward III.  We've got the Uncertain flags out here

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Greystoke-36

But I don't think we need them.  I have this vague idea that the doubt was only created by a mistake in an old book.

 

Gotcha. I honestly don't care if I have a baron in the tree. Or any royal. It's neat. But, if a tree is messed up it's annoying. Already had to fix two here. =)

Hugh Jones and Sarah.Wilson's parents.

Dunno how accurate the other ladies are. Posted the trails.
RJ thanks for weighing in on this discussion.  Your input is always welcome
Greystoke. She appeared in the line. Her stuff and a few others seem dubious. Great input, RJ!
+11 votes
by Doug Lockwood G2G Astronaut (2.7m points)
Okay. From a quick glance I don't see names that look familiar.

Could some be missing?
nope - the table on that page has the 240 Gateways listed by Richardson in the front matter of ''Magna Carta Ancestry'' (Thanks RJ!)

The names listed are linked to their WikiTree profiles. Their profiles are also included in the category. The table is less fluid & also allows us to note which are in a badged trail (the ones with a "b").
Good to know.  Thanks, Liz!

Not really looking to see who DOES have a legit connection. Just funny to see these random connections pop up. I have no idea if they are legit.

I think I might have more of a chance on the French side to be related to French aristocracy because of all the Quebecois I have.

It really doesn't matter to me.

I love how frequently i find "new-to-me" ancestors when I check if I'm related to someone. You didn't turn up anyone new, but we're 10th cousins 1ce removed through Pierre Perthuis. Hi cuz!

Cheers, Liz

Hi! Nice to meet you!
+3 votes
I just posted all my connections to the Magna Carta signers. I left out the ones that were flat out uncertain. The rest may be possible. I noticed Hugh Jones and a couple other names pop up as possible links to the barons.

On Geni I have a possible connection to Thomas De Berkley via Michael Metcalf:

https://www.geni.com/path/Chris-Ferraiolo+is+related+to+Thomas-de-Berkeley-5th-Baron-Berkeley?from=6000000059612437261&to=6000000000615178001
by Chris Ferraiolo G2G6 Pilot (820k points)
edited by Chris Ferraiolo

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