Most distant known paternal ancestor on the direct male line:

Question

Thank you all  again so very much for your assistance.

The question on the header is posed while updating my ysearch profile.

this leads to my question in the form of an example

presuming I identify 3 or more males on my Matches list of varying generations who share a common surname, and also happen to share my YDNA haplo# (JM267), and I can identify the common person by whom we are connected when tracing their trees... Can I effectively say that the common person by whom we are connected is MY "Most distant known paternal ancestor on the direct male line"?

I feel like I need permission to claim a relative when I cannot account for my own lineage.

Comments

I think that approach could be misleading if you have no paper trail connecting you to the supposed most distant ancestor.

---

I think it may be Ok if you've taken a 37 marker and have 0 genetic distance. Also a 67 with 1 genetic distance may be Ok.

Answer 1

Jaime,

I don't think that works unless you know you are related to one of the three. What you propose only proves that the common ancestor of the three shares a common ancestor with you.  Your ancestor could be the common ancestor of the three but he could also be many generations further back.

For Y-DNA research the "genetic distance" within the halpogroup is probably more important than the halpogroup alone.  Mutations on the Y chromosome happen infrequently so if you are encountering "matches" with a genetic distance greater than 0-3, it is likely that connection is much further back.

These are generalities and there are some exceptions but are still applicable in most cases.

Answer 2

You need to rely on matching Y haplotypes rather than matching haplogroups.  

When the paper trail connecting them is missing then please follow this example: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:Roberts_Y-STR_Group_1

Comments

A lot of us like to plan occasional sojourns to geographic seats of our family lineages; a chance to visit and photograph, to examine old document archives, to possibly meet descendants of related lines.

Not many of us get to go to the Bahamas for that purpose.  :-)

Answer 3

Hi, Jaime. I responded to your other question, but have a feeling (a guess only, mind you) that it has been removed because it contained third-party DNA kit numbers. So some of this may sound odd out of context, but all the same...

For the time being, I recommend you put that yDNA haplogroup out of your mind completely. Until you have more information, it's only going to lead you down some false and time-consuming allies.

From what you've said, I'm confident that your J-M267 classification is a predicted outcome of your Y-37 STR test. J-M267 is the top-level SNP for the J1 subclade...estimates are that the marker arose between 4,000 and 24,000 years ago. Here's a quick Wikipedia read for some background.

FTDNA's predictive haplogroups are very accurate, as far as they go. What you can be assured of is that any male not in the J1 subclade is unrelated to your direct paternal line. But the haplogroup can serve no relevant function in matching other than that.

I would file those two kits with a genetic distance of 3 (of the 37 markers tested) in the back of my mind, but not spend any time trying to establish contact just yet. In very general terms, here is how FTDNA categorizes genetic distances for each panel of STR tests. Some markers are more volatile than others, and your TiP report should give you a better handle on the possible time to MRCA, but a GD of 3 at 37 markers puts it on the cusp of being only a "possible" from 7 to 15 generations ago." I also personally don't feel that upgrading to 67 markers will help you at this point. Upgrading will refine timeframe estimation, but won't find you any additional matches. What you really need is for a GD 1 match to pop-up.

I'm in agreement with everyone else that yDNA will mostly be a wait-and-watch for the time being. It doesn't sound like there are any solid leads to chase there yet, so I would be concentrating on autosomal DNA and starting to examine and map chromosomal segments on a kit-by-kit basis. And that very much includes those matches from your mother's side. They may not have much to tell you about your father, but their DNA might. The important thing now is to start to begin building triangulation groups. These eventually will allow you to identify which segments on which chromosomes you probably got from your mother, and which from your mother.

And good on ya for already reaching out to the cousin on the Facebook Group. Be happy to make contact with cousins on your mother's side of the family, even if they may not be able to directly help you with your goal. Be willing to share information that might help them, and make a new friend.  :-)

By building data to form triangulation groups, you'll begin to have a confident idea of which matches are on your father's side. A GEDmatch Tier 1 "for fee" feature that might interest you is one called "Lazarus." With kit numbers from several cousins (the more the better, even 4th cousins) on your father's side of the family, you can create a new kit, a "pseudo-genome," that closely approximates your father's autosomal DNA...no yDNA, but still a handy tool for comparisons.

Good luck, and make sure your FTDNA preferences are set so that you're emailed when new yDNA matches show up!