PGM: Should the parents of Thomas Bliss of Rehoboth and George Bliss of Newport be disconnected?

Question

This question would affect both:

• Thomas Bliss of Rehoboth
• George Bliss of Newport

The issue of Thomas' parentage was earlier raised in "How did Agnes Old come to be linked as mother of Thomas Bliss of Rehoboth?"? In sorting out the question of Agnes Old, I've come to wonder if we should remove all attached parents from Thomas and George Bliss.

•  Anderson notes in the Great Migration Directory entries for both Thomas and George that "The proposed English origin for this immigrant should be revisited." The proposed origins comes from The Bliss Book, published 1913. The newer Genealogy of the Bliss Family (1982) doesn't really question or add to the English origins suggested in 1913.
• There is an assumption that Thomas of Rehoboth and George of Sandwich and Newport were brothers, or probably brothers, but I haven't been able to find support for this.  In a review of the Genealogy of the Bliss Family, George McCracken refers to George Bliss as "of Rehoboth" and a "probable" brother of Thomas, But, Anderson's Directory only places George at Sandwich and Newport and Thomas at Braintree and Rehoboth.  If they aren't even co-located is there anything connecting them besides their last name?
• The identification of Thomas seems to be based on baptisms matching his known children named in New England records (although we don't have a great fix on their ages, the baptism dates would work).  But what connects this Thomas of Daventry to John Blisse who died in Preston Parva in 1617?  They were both blacksmiths, but is that sufficient?
• There is another possible candidate for the parents of Thomas Blisse. John Blisse who married Agnes Old in Stowe Nine Churches had a son Thomas bp 25 Apr 1589. (And also had a son George).  I think this suggests that perhaps these names are too common in this area to identify the parents without more evidence.

Removing the parents would sever the connection between Thomas and George, and also call into question the origins of George Bliss in Northamptonshire as well as the currently attached wife.

What are peoples' thoughts?  I lean towards disconnecting but I also feel unqualified to determine the validity of the connection of Thomas Bliss of Daventry to John Blisse of Preston Parva.

Answer 1

Argh!! It always makes me "dizzy" revisiting people that I discombobulated once before.

Seeing that there is another family of a John in a nearby town with children Thomas and George, does put enough doubt in my mind to question the conclusions of the old tomes. It's too bad no one has located the will of the Stowe Nine Churches John.

I'm ok with disconnecting with, of course, the obvious notes and links in the biography.

Comments

Thanks, Anne.  I understand the "trauma" of revisiting the previously discombobulated.  It's one thing if NEHGR publishes an update with a definitive answer...it is considerably less satisfying to have to incorporate new information which makes the picture only muddier.

I'll work on the notes.

Answer 2

I support erring on the side of caution. Please hold off on these and similar connections until someone comes up with credible sources to support them. Rehoboth was settled in order to physically stop the expansion of Providence and Newport. Reverend Newman was installed as a doctrinal blockade against the Quakers and Baptists. If these two were brothers, something happened to set them on diverging paths.

I believe Thomas Bliss & Dorothy Wheatley to be my 9th great grandparents; my paternal line stretches back to Rehoboth, so I have made some effort to learn its history. One 19th century History of Rehoboth was written by a descendant of Thomas Bliss http://archive.org/details/historyrehoboth01blisgoog/page/n12/mode/1up

Comments

I'm confused by your wording. "Please hold off on these connections" which I interpret as meaning you don't want us to connect the parents, but they are already connected. Do you want to leave them there or remove them?

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Sorry Anne, I meant that I'm in favor of upholding today's standards of proof. In this case, that would entail disconnecting the relationships that need further research, but please reference them with links to the profiles of unproven relations. Please, add these notes explaining how the proposed connections date back to the 1913 text cited; however, by current standards, there is a lack of documentation to support the connection. Hopefully, the notes will reduce the chances that someone will later reconnect them without posting further evidence to support their claims.

The notes on these profiles are excellent-thank you for sharing these valuable insights!

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Thank you for the clarification.

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Speaking of discombobulation, about a year ago, John Reade, cordwainer of Newport, Rhode Island, was mistakenly merged into John Read, farmer and tavern keeper of Rehoboth. John Read sadly, they each had well sourced profiles with details specific to each, but people keep falling into the trap of believing there can't possibly have been more than one 17th century immigrant John Read, Thomas Carter, John Cotton.... 

I don't yet have the Wikitree skills to deal with this situation. With my 94 yr old mom being now medically fragile, its not my time to learn.

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Shaking my head, they made a mess of that.

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I think recreating the profile that was merged away is fairly easy to recreate.  Disentangling the merge target is a little messier.  Would you like me to recreate the profile for John Reade, cordwainer of Newport?

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Anonymous, I've extracted the info from the merge history and pasted the two bios into a draft page.  Let me know if its useful:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:M_Cole-12288_Draft

Incidentally, John Read of Rehoboth should be PGM.  And since there was the confusion we can protect John read of Newport as PGM Adjunct.

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Well done M! 

Find a Grave memorial 14192640 belongs with John Read of Rehoboth and was probably the catalyst for the merge. This is an example of one of several reasons I'm not fond of Find a Grrrave and the ways it can be used as a substitute for research. Correct wife,  children, cemetery for John of Rehoboth,  but the parents and brother William come from old stories (JWR?). The parents are bonkers.  Brother William is sketchy-  possible, but I think unproven. Who can sort the William Reads of Weymouth?

To me, the other sources look properly sorted and correctly assigned. PGM protection would be helpful, thanks for bringing that up. 

I haven't studied John Reade of Newport, but here is a finding aid for his family http://accessgenealogy.com/massachusetts/read.htm

Thanks for being so gracious with my side comment. I brought it up because Ann knows Rehoboth so well through the Mayflower Project. If you would be so kind as to correct the profiles and them to PGM, I leave them in your capable hands. With gratitude! EAR

P.S. I've no idea to what extent descendants of the two John have become tangled - my descent is through Daniel; he is alright. 

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They have been restored.

I took a peak at the children...and they all seem to be associated with the locations of John of Rehoboth, although there are duplicate sons John and a son William that's not mentioned in the bio.

But, I think things are in better shape now.  I also added the new "Easily Confused" box to alert people of the potential mix up.

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Thanks so much M! You and Anne B, Ellen Smith, and a few others are far less likely than I to be questioned regarding these kind of rewrites/restorations. I haven't yet earned the stats and Wikitree street cred to manage such things without unsettling people. (Even if I had all the skills.)

Answer 3

I don't think it would be unusual.  I grew up inBarorington, RI.  Rehobeth MA is a 10 minute Drive.  Newport is 30 minutes away.  My high school summer jobs were there.

The political history is confusing to say the least.  Mostly because 20th & 21st century Americans think roads before boats.  Native people in RI paddled canoes. or they walked.White settlers from Plymouth Colony settled the area after being introduced by native people See the story of Massasoit befriending Pilgrims from the Mayflower in 1623.  Every property deed in Barrington can be traced back to a gift from the Wampanoags.

During the time before the American Revolution the area was governed by Plymouth, Massachusetts Bay, and RI Colonies.  Newport developed into a major port city.Rehobeth and Swansea,MA as well as Barrington, Warren and Bristol RI were at different times part of Bristol, County MA and Bristol County RI.  Vital records were held in all.  Church records would also be locally held.  /Happily, religious freedom has a proud history in  Rhode Island.

 Learned ministers were teachers, often given lodging as compensation.

I have found fascinating books published to commemorate bicentennial, tricentennial etc celebrations of small New England communities.  They all contain contemporary biographies of notable residents.  These are great genealogical roadmaps, I googled Rehobeth and saw a picture of the town hall.  The construction is so similar, to the Barrington RI town hall they could have been built at the same time by the same builder.  Maybe they were.

Don't hesitate to contact me directly  if I can help.  I know the East Bay (Narragansett) half of RI a lot better than NE TN where I live now.:-)