French archives

Question

I am researching my ancestors that came from Bas-Rhin, France, and have come across a brick wall, an Andre Muller, baptized 27 Aug 1730 to an Andre Muller and Marie Specht in Erstein, Bas-Rhin. It appears he moved to Plobsheim, married first Anna Maria Krieg, and then Catherine Spiesser, before dying in 1794 with 7 children. I have found a marriage record for an Andre Muller and Marie Specht, but it is in a nearby commune Westhouse in 1714. I am not very familiar with how frequently inhabitants of France moved between communes in the same department and whether or not an identification can be made between these two couples.

From the baptismal registers of Westhouse and Erstein, it appears as though the Andre Muller and Marie Specht couple in Westhouse have children in 1715, 1718, 1719, 1722 and 1723, whereas the first child for the Erstein couple is 1726 (further issue 1728, 1730, 1733). Leading, but is it dispositive?

I can provide links to the acts if necessary

Answer 1

Looking at a modern map, Erstein and Plobsheim are only about 6-7 miles apart, depending on your route, by modern roads. Erstein is equidistant from Plobsheim and Westhouse. These are not excessive distances.

Comments

Right, I get that they are close in physical location, but I guess I'm not sure if moving between these communes was typical for the time period and whether or not we can say with what level of certainty that these two couples are the same.

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My experience is primarily with the Austrian Empire at this time, while most marriages are between couples within a village, it is not at all uncommon for spouses to be from nearby villages. I think (nearby villages) this would more common with smaller villages due to the lack of eligible marriage partners (eg, due to consanguinity or not enough men or women). The Austrian Catholic records commonly say where the bride and groom, or their parents, are from. I cannot say if that is the case in France.

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The marriage record doesn't say where he was from, but I've seen the baptism record for the Andre Muller who married Marie Specht, he was born in Westhouse.
 

Larger point is that I'm theorizing two sets of couples here: Andre Muller x Marie Specht (1) [lived in Erstein]
Andre Muller x Marie Specht (2) [lived in Westhouse]. Is it possible these are the same couples or different couples? Certainly they were in similar places in the same era, but could there be a second Andre Muller a different Marie Specht in a different town?

For reference, there is no marriage record for Andre Muller and Marie Specht in Erstein, I checked about 50 pages of marriage records. There are two other Muller marriages there from abt 1710 to 1730, in 1713 and 1717. The surname doesn't seem too common in Erstein at the time.

Answer 2

André Specht and Marie Muller are extremely common names for the area, I wouldn’t go identificating the couples without other proof.

Have you tried looking at witnesses on records ? Do all the children have the same godparents maybe ? (It may happen in the time and place).

Look at the children’s marriage records, maybe an elder brother born in Westhouse is a witness to the marriage of a younger sibling born in Erstein.

What about Andre Muller and Marie Specht’s burial records ? Often the eldest son or the husband of the eldest daughter were witnesses on burial records. If they died in Erstein but a child from Westhouse is witness you may have more proof for identification.