County of Bristol, England

Question

The issue of Bristol Stickers and Categories was raised in 2019 (now closed) Why is Editbot incorrectly renaming Bristol categories ? - WikiTree G2G

There is a Category [[Category:Bristol, Gloucestershire]] https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:Bristol%2C_Gloucestershire

According to Wikipedia and other sources Bristol is a County in its own right.

From this source Bristol | History, Points of Interest, & County | Britannica

Bristol, city and unitary authority, southwestern England. The historic centre of Bristol and the sections of the city north of the River Avon (Lower, or Bristol, Avon) were part of the historic county of Gloucestershire, while the areas south of the Avon lay within the historic county of Somerset until the creation of the county of Bristol (1373–1974) and then of the county of Avon (1974–96). When the county of Avon was abolished, Bristol became a unitary authority.

So apart from the period 1974-1996 when in the County of Avon, Bristol has been a county since 1373 (the first town to be given that status) Bristol - Wikipedia

There are towns of Bristol that have Gloucestershire eg Clifton Category: Clifton, Gloucestershire (wikitree.com)

Answer 1

Yes, Bristol is a county in its own right and in the data fields the correct usage is Bristol, England (no other county name). However, the categories are set up differently and to avoid confusion and a huge amount of work for little end benefit, the category is Bristol, Gloucestershire. While people from the UK generally understand the complexities of the English counties and how they change over time, it is perhaps unreasonable to expect the wider WT community to know all the ins and outs of border changes and local authorities. The current naming policy is our best attempt to make it accessible to all users.

The Bristol categories, as well as being nested under Gloucestershire are also nested under Somerset to allow the greatest number of people to find what they are looking for. This page has a detailed explanation. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Categorisation_in_Bristol

Bristol does now have its own sticker that can be used on profiles. You will find it here. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Template:England_Sticker

Comments

Many thanks Elizabeth - I will find profiles that have birth, marriage, death place names showing "Bristol, Gloucestershire" and change them - am ok to go with the [[Category:Bristol, Gloucestershire]].

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That would be super Roger. We have already got a lot changed over but it does take some time, so every little bit helps! And yes, [[Bristol, Gloucestershire]] for category. :-)

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Just for information, there are currently about 17,500 profiles that correctly use either Bristol, England or Bristol, England, United Kingdom in the location fields. However there are about 7,000 that use Bristol, Gloucestershire, England in at least one of the location fields. 

There are also over 1,000 that just say Bristol - some of those appear to be Bristol, England, but some appear to be Bristol, Massachusetts, United States or Bristol, Sullivan, Tennessee, United States or Bristol, Virginia, United States or Bristol, Carleton, New Brunswick, Canada (and probably others too).

Figures taken from https://plus.wikitree.com/function/WTShowTable/Table.htm?table=Countries&filter=Europe, entry for "England, Gloucestershire, Bristol". You can also click on the link in that table to get a list of the ones that use Bristol, Gloucestershire, England (first 500 profiles only).

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Thank you Paul.

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Many thanks Paul - have started on corrections

Answer 2

We still need to talk about Bristol! 

I fully stand by the decision to eliminate Gloucestershire (Contrary to comments that Bristol was never in Gloucestershire actually it once was but so far back as to be irrelevant.) The categorisation system recognises the problem of Bristol locations but I'm not sure that all the people altering profiles understand. For instance, one addition removed Gloucestershire from the birth location and then added a marriage location of Redland Gloucestershire. A St George Gloucestershire was changed to just Barton Regis A registration district) which is of little use. I am presently trawling through all my Bristol and surrounding area profiles to make sure that the changes make sense. We need to remember that a lot of people will need to search do not know Bristol that the vast majority of sources north of the Avon will be found by searching Gloucestershire. If not in the index it needs to show in the Biography. The various parishes and areas like Clifton, Bedminster, St Just, St Paul, and many others (not necessarily the churches as they were not all parish churches except for weddings and naming ceremonies when the ceremony location is good, iI that woke enough ) of Bristol are needed if possible (not removed) but this is inconsistent. Should it be St George, Bristol, England or Bristol St George, England (or indeed St George, Gloucestershire, England in the appropriate time period? Probably not Barton Regis, a registration area just like Gloucestershire, definitely not Barton Regis Gloucestershire! Would it be worth constructing a time lime time chart of what actually happens and once agreed to stick to it? The same problem goes for the south of the River Avon. 

Bristol, England is just not good enough and should drill down at least one more level if the information is available. It was probably better with Gloucestershire at least it narrowed it down a bit! See my comment at the beginning

Comments

Oh and people you are meant to be improving things! Just wiping a location that has the district of Bristol as well as Gloucestershire and replacing it with only Bristol, England is really not helping things and Barton Regis is the equivalent of Gloucestershire on a smaller scale, adding that doesn't help either.

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I agree! But beyond encouragement, I don't see what we can do to enforce people to specify the relevant part of the city.

Bristol is particularly difficult, but other large cities raise similar issues. Birmingham ("Warwickshire") includes areas which were in Staffordshire or Worcestershire - and even a small exclave of Shropshire. The biography needs to include the details of registration district / urban ward / ecclesiastical parish / locality (in Bristol that would be "areal") to help others to research. The guidance on location fields does allow for the local area to be included before "City, County, England". The guidance on categorisation encourages the use of the locality rather than the city. But I don't see how this guidance can be enforced other than by those with good local knowledge.

Answer 3

I have just reinvented the wheel.  With Bristol shown as being in different counties for the same person, I decided to get to the bottom of the conflict. As stated above, Bristol has been its own county since 1373 (whether a ceremonial county or a geographical county, is not stated.) Its present status is all 3, a city, a ceremonial county and a unitary authority.  So, it would be quite correct to show Bristol as "city of Bristol, county of Bristol. " A Google link said that the smallest county is not Bristol, but Rutland.