Are Tables desirable on WT?

+12 votes
1.4k views

Please, can anyone help me? When I did my Orphan Trail, I learnt how to create tables for WT, and dutifully made tables for censuses etc for all my family's profiles and various others. 

I have now gathered that tables are not desirable for medieval profiles, (the reason given was) because they don't 'fit' into the screen of a mobile phone, or tablet, or other similar device.
In fact, I checked on one of my own (19th century) profiles, (see here) on my phone, and saw that indeed, the tables do over-reach from the actual text block area, which I have to admit, does look messy and the whole table can only be seen if one makes the screen as small as possible, which may be hard for some to see.
Should tables be allowed at all, if this is the case? Should I alter all my profiles with tables and revert to simple lists with citations?
What is current WT policy and is it the same for all projects and periods?

in Policy and Style by Frances Piercy-Reins G2G6 Mach 9 (90.2k points)
If you look at a more sophisticated website, such as Wikipedia for example, the pages have one view for desktop and a different view for mobile.

11 Answers

+12 votes
Definitely don't go back and remove the tables from your own profiles.

My understanding is webpage design for phones/tabets is different to desktop, and I think trying to optimise everything for phone when wikitree has been designed for desktop use is ultimately going to be a frustrating fools errand.

I personally only use tables for census records - I find it's the cleanest way of presenting the information, especially s it is how it's displayed in the original record.

I personally wouldn't use a table to list children - I find a numbered, hyperlinked list enough in that case.

One suggestion I would make from the profile you linked would be instead of having separate columns for Name/Profile, to merge them into one column, and just have the names with profiles hyperlinked there.
by Kaitlyn Emmett G2G6 Mach 4 (40.2k points)

Good advice. Thanks, Kaitlyn. Makes sense.

I'm very interested in what as many people as possible think here. There's clearly nothing one can do about the fact that, as you say, 'webpage design for phones/tablets is different to desktop'.
.. perhaps we'll just have to live with it.

+11 votes
Is it just the really wide ones that are an issue as I like to use them for the census information on my profiles as it helps when writing a biography.

You could add them to a free space page and then just add a link.
by Hilary Gadsby G2G6 Pilot (321k points)
Thanks, Hilary. That's a nice idea.

What Hilary says is what I do with most census date, I break it out into Free Space pages for the household then link to it as necessary. Eg Census data ...

I had no problem with any of your tables in landscape on an iPad using chrome-based browser, my preferred orientation and working space if using the iPad. Wouldn't even think about attempting to edit a page on a phone screen, using a browser on a phone for viewing anything is bad enough as it is.

I think your tables could be made more compact as others have suggested by combining profile links with the person's name and having inline citations rather than a separate column. You could also use abbreviations for sex and marital status as per the original censuses, leave blank for unknown marital status.

Yes, those are definitely good ideas. Thanks. I can see I've got some work cut out for me. laugh

+6 votes
I like tables, but I don't like tables that I have to read the data vertically.  So, I would not spend my time looking at the information in the tables on the profile you listed.

One problem I think exist is that wide tables would overlay the pictures if many pictures were added to the profile.  This is not the case with this profile (for me anyway).

A problem that I saw with this profile, in portrait mode on my iPad (9.7" viewable area), is that for tables 1 and 3, the last column was being displayed on top of the background image.  So there is a clash between the two.

Lastly, I noticed that the Stickers are displayed up in the Table of Contents area.  According to the instructions on placement of Stickers, the stickers are to be placed below the Biography heading.
by Tommy Buch G2G Astronaut (2.0m points)

Thanks for the heads-up, Tommy. laugh

+9 votes
I would not format a profile specifically for phone or tablet use. If I use a phone to access any webpage then I do so accepting that it may not be an optimized experience.

In the case of your example profile, navigating those tables on my tiny iPhone 7 was fine, whereas a bulleted list would likely not be as good due to wrapping on a narrow display.

The recommendation to combine profile links right into the name text itself is a good one.
by Joe Murray G2G6 Mach 8 (84.9k points)
+14 votes
I'm not a fan of tables, the reasons already stated by others here. But I'm *especially* not a fan of a table for the children's list. Most genealogy publications/journals use a numbered or bulleted list for this purpose, and to me that's a much cleaner look on a web page. We have the added advantage of being able to hyperlink to the profiles that a printed journal article doesn't have. On a web page, my eye tends to see the "chart" instead of the data.

When working on Project profiles, it's probably a good idea to ask the project leaders/members for guidance on styles, too.

Just my 2 cents.
by Bobbie Hall G2G6 Pilot (355k points)
This make sense. When I look at profiles with censuses as well as children's lists, they can look similar at first glance, and might be confusing.

In future I'll make numbered lists for new profiles and go through my old ones and change them. Thanks.
+16 votes
I avoid tables, except for some free space pages. Partly because they often display badly on mobile phones and tablets - and a lot of us use tablets frequently for working on WT and a lot of visitors will be using tablets. Partly because they can be fiddly for others to edit, and may cause particular difficulty for people who are not experienced in editing tables. Partly because for most information, many people find it easier to digest it in text form rather than as a table. It is, I believe, a good WT principle to keep things simple, and this facilitates collaboration. As the help page on editing tips says, ”Plain text is almost always best."

For things like lists of children, or lists of positions held, tables make things unnecessarily complicated. The information is harder to read. Even more so if there are some blank cells. It becomes much more cumbersome to add or remove children or posts held if good sourcing is found for this, as happens often with pre-1700 profiles: and with a bulleted list, it is much easier to add helpful information that would not fit easily into the rigidity of a table format (eg to indicate where sources disagree on whether someone was a child).

For the Medieval Project and Magna Carta Project, which I co-lead, I invariably remove any table I find if I am overhauling a profile, and replace it with text, using bulleted lists where appropriate.
by Michael Cayley G2G6 Pilot (235k points)
edited by Michael Cayley
To add that the Magna Carta Project has an explicit instruction not to use tables in biographies.
Thanks, Michael. I appreciate your input.
This is a really good answer that I totally agree with.
+9 votes
If you happen to use Google Chrome as a browser you can check to see how a page looks on a mobile device.
From the page of interest press F12
then press Crtl shift and M - you'll get a drop down of various mobile devices at the top of the page, left pane

I start tables that might otherwise be too wide with

{| border="1" style="width: 400px"

this limits the width to 400 pixels (some phones are only 390 wide)

Also if you use WikiTree Bee sources can appear in Table format - see https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Gray-18758
Darryl
by Darryl Rowles G2G6 Mach 6 (63.0k points)
That's clever. Thank you!
That's similar to what I do but (a) give it a little more room and (b) eliminate quotes:

{|border=4 width=500
Darryl, I do use Chrome, but your keyboard tips didn't work for me. Do you know of any other way to see a preview of how a page looks on mobile devices? My laptop OS is Windows 11--would that make a difference in how the keys work?

I have used the BEE for making tables. WikiTree Sourcer extension also creates tables. It puts

{| border="1" cellpadding="4"

at the top of the tables. Is "cellpadding" in any way equivalent in any way to the code you use for limiting table width?

Edit...

Okay, I figured out how to see the preview options. With my keyboard, I have to also press my fn key with my f12 key.
Yes many compact keyboards (laptops) map the Function keys to other uses unless you press fn

Once you have developer mode up (F12) instead of simultaneously pressing Crtl shift and M you can click the icon just left of the word Elements at the top of the right pane to access the mobile view.
+6 votes
Yes, keep the tables. The issue of width has been mentioned and that can be cured by including 'width=500' (or some other value).  Some complain that they are just too complicated for the general user.  I think more highly of the community myself.
by Living Anderson G2G6 Mach 8 (81.1k points)
+6 votes
I cheat. I would print my table, then scan it. Now the table is a scalable .jpeg that can be pinched and zoomed to heart's content without getting all mangled.
by Anonymous Reed G2G6 Pilot (185k points)
Thanks for the thought. One disadvantage of that is that the image cannot be edited by others if there is information to correct, add or remove, so it makes collaboration more difficult. It is especially important for earlier profiles that things like lists of children can be edited.

Even some census records contain errors which may need to be flagged up and corrected.

Michael Cayley, those are good points. Not insurmountable, given the many options for editing and comments, but they are good points to keep in mind always.

+5 votes
Thanks to everyone for your comments and input. It's been a very helpful discussion.
by Frances Piercy-Reins G2G6 Mach 9 (90.2k points)
+4 votes
Humans use Tables to express data because they can simply be the best format for expressing a range of data in an easy to understand and concise way.

It's just a bit sad that the wiki markup syntax makes it cumbersome to edit.  That being said, writing up tables in html looks even less like the finished product.
by Ro Hull G2G6 Mach 1 (13.2k points)

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