Are Winston Churchill and Muhammod Ali really related?

Question

Using our relationship finder, I have configured it to match Winston Churchill (Churchill-4) and  Muhammad Ali (Clay-1582).

Crikey, this says that they are 10th cousins once removed, sharing ancestry with Anne (Erskine) Leslie 1597-1640 (Erskine-720)

Surely there must be a mistake somewhere??????

https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Special:Relationship&action=calculate&person1_name=Churchill-4&person2_name=Clay-1582

Comments

Interesting, Alistair. I immediately thought the connection might be via Winston's American mother but this says via his father. To document this, you'd have to go through each step of the two lineages and verify the connections--which I am surprised has not already been done on the Spencer-Churchill family. Add the tag England to your question for some more eyes.

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Yeah, so one place this might break down on Muhammad Ali's side is in generations 11-12 - Susan Sarah (Haldane) Duncan, born 1610 to Richard Haldane, who was supposedly born about 1590 to Richard Haldane (born 1580) and his wife Anne (Erskine) Leslie (born 1597). The latter two are also Winston Churchill's ancestors, but they can't be the parents of the Richard Haldane who was the father of Susan (Haldane) Duncan. The relevant entry for Richard Haldane (born 1590) https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Haldane-109 notes that his parentage is speculative and that his descent from the Haldanes of Stirling Castle is unproven.

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One or more of the dates that don't fit could be just bad estimates.

Given that both persons are notable, the sourcing should be vetted on the presumptiveconnecting profiles.

Answer 1

see also https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Special:Relationship&action=calculate&person1_name=Churchill-4&person2_name=Von_der_Pahlen-28

The strange and wonderful world of extended family.

Answer 2

Yes, there could be a mistake:

Research Notes

• According to Scots Peerage, Anna married 1614 to John Leslie, 6th Earl of Rothes. No mention of Richard Haldane. More sources for this other marriage need to be researched.

Also:

11. Susan is the daughter of Richard Haldane [confident]
12. Richard is the son of Anne (Erskine) Leslie [confident]

11. Richard Haldane was born in 1590.  His father (also Richard) the supposed husband of Anne Erskine was born in 1580.

Answer 3

I am also related to both of these gentlemen.  I balked at the Muhamad Ali connection, but found that one of his ancestor's, John Henry Clay, was the son of a slave & the slave owner, one Henry Clay (Clay-233), US Senator & Secretary of State for 1825.  I am related to Winston Churchill through Ralph Allen Sr.(Allen-1301) & to Muhamad Ali through John Throckmorton, MP (Throckmorton-6).  I hope this helps in your search.  -Brad