Can I get some help with my great grandfather ‘s wives?

Question

So I’m fairly confident from what my aunt told me that James Gray, my paternal 2nd great grandfather’s children had different parents.

I feel I’ve just added to the conflict by adding this profile since I now realize it conflicts with the marriage of he and Jane Elizabeth Stains. There is a profile for Jane Elizabeth Umney Stokes that implies this is the same Umney but then the parents are no longer the same in the profile.

My head hurts from constantly running into walls with this family. I have several relatives I feel I could connect to but this must be sorted first.

Comments

Is it possible that she died or divorced before the second marriage? I don't see a source for her death being after 1886 as it says in her profile.

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I'm also wondering about sources for her as the mother for the six children.

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True. You have a point.  I need to look at each individual child.  This family will drive me to drink

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I wish my family would drive me to drink! I have to take an Uber.

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I get so overwhelmed and frustrated.

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I have 2 James gray in a tree of mine. Do you know Middle name or dates of birth.

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Thanks for your question.  The jones family is certainly a surname that comes through with DNA matches.

Now Staines I’m about to give up on.  My ONLY DNA match on Ancestry is 5-8 generations cousin. I’m thinking of possibilities here. My aunt told me there was a lot of family discord with parents fighting and drinking. My aunt mentioned my GGM staying with an aunt.

-was she staying with an aunt or did they adopt another family name. Thompson/Thomson, Cole/Coleman, Gray, Pearse/Pearce/Pears, Stein, Philips… are names close to this Staines on Family search and common in my matches.

Turner was in my through lines, Atwell or similar might be an affiliated name I saw connected to the Violet Staines who witnessed her marriage.  I’m trying to figure out the other witness as well.  I also do have various forms of DNA matches with Atwell.

It’s complicated with many matching names/places/ similar dates. Even the dates are pushing boundaries with the age of this Jane.  It doesn’t feel right not having the DNA matches for her.  I have Costain, but those are likely kin to Coasta from my maternal side.

Answer 1

At least one of the Canadian marriage records for James's daughter Alice  on FamilySearch states that her mother's maiden name was Stains.  Based on that I had a look at the English census returns and the birth registrations of the children mentioned in the censuses.  

What I found was that a James Gray married Elizabeth Jane Staines in 1871 (a lot earlier than the profiles suggested) in the registration district of Romford, Essex.  They had 14 children together over the next 25 years, before Elizabeth (Staines) Gray died in 1899.  

Alice Jane (Gray) Wrigglesworth appears to have been one of those children, born in 1887, which is the year on her very confusing gravestone (1888-1979 is her husband's dates).  (This is slightly older than the age given on her marriage certificate).  

Meanwhile, according to the census returns, James remained a widower and went to live with one of his married daughters.  He died in Edmonton, Middlesex in 1921.  

On the face of it, this is all very straightforward.  Which means I'm clearly missing something.  Is this completely the wrong family?  (eg did James move to Canada in 1911?). 

You mentioned DNA in one of your change logs - does that tell you a different story?  Is there something going on that the census returns didn't record?  

ETA: the reason 13yo Alice wasn't in her father's household in the 1901 census is that she was working as an under-housemaid not very far away.  (Also: Sources on profiles). 

Comments

My aunt says there were mixed family. She said other siblings didn’t go by Gray.  I believe she also said that the were in Ohio?  I have 100 thousand matches or just about, barely any Staines. I did find a family name variation Casstains but only a couple matches   It continues on up to the next GGPs with Halcomb with barely any matches   No one from said families has replied to emails for collaboration and they usually have a private tree   The public trees are just copying what’s written in family search  

The marriage certificate for her mother says she isn’t a Staines daughter?

DNA is also indicating Turner is possibly a name to consider.

I’m trying to stay on task and go strictly by what has been documented but I don’t want to be wrong?

I’ll need to go one child at a time I guess.  Hopefully my aunt can be more clear with details.

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Well, I documented somebody's family there, but it sounds like it's not yours!  I basically straightened out the profile for Elizabeth Jane Stain(e)s by finding the right marriage to match the children on the census returns (i.e. I found that the 1885 marriage involving Jane Elizabeth Stains daughter of Charles Dowsett, which was on the profile before, was a different couple entirely).

But it sounds like there's something more fundamentally wrong here.  For example, I followed the assumption that Alice Jane Gray was born in England, but I'm not seeing any hard evidence for that?  

Going back to first principles and getting as much information as you can, especially names, from your aunt sounds like a good place to start.  Ignoring any research anyone else has done and starting again with a blank sheet of paper sounds like it might be helpful too.

Good luck!

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Well you’ve been very helpful, thanks so much , I will have a look at that (Dousett relationship)

There are a few very similar profiles and it’s easy to get them confused.  I just found another group of Gray family attached to Calaiezzi families. Calaiezzi ‘s were related to me via my great uncle’s wife and now I’m related to husband and wife according to DNA.  Family research is full of surprises. Hopefully this gray family is of the same I’m currently looking at.

Thanks for everything

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Well I found a James Gray born in 1853 from Ireland. Matching DNA for this Wikitree account owner. Far cry from the “popular “ version of ancestors except that the Perry surname is included.  This Gray shows having 3 wives!!

Gray-38440

Feel free to comment please.  I will write the tree owner as well